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These comments just read like a whole bunch of people who never rode a bike and yet are somehow experts on everything about bikes. This thing is not for Le Tou

These comments just read like a whole bunch of people who never rode a bike and yet are somehow experts on everything about bikes. This thing is not for Le Tour and you don't go fast on it and you don't go up giant hills on it. That makes a lot of the concerns here go out the window. These types of bikes shaped objects often have all kinds of issues with trying to use bike parts designed for standard bikes on something that is very different. Issues with needing enormous chains, huge cable runs, etc.. when designers try things like this they are worrying about issues like that more than whether you can climb a mountain on it or stuff it into a corner at high speed without going out of control. The thing with these is the cost to design & manufacture components that need to be different than normal bikes can be astronomical, so anything they can do to design the frame to use normal components in a normal/non-compromised way pays off in a huge way. The ideas behind this aren't that different than the Cruzbike being front wheel drive to get rid of a lot of the component/drivetrain issues that recumbent bikes are famous for.

bgnn 1y ago
People comparing these with racing bikes is so unbelievable.
elliottkember 1y ago
The comment asking about riding positions drop bars was hilarious. Lots of Americans in the comments is probably why, plus the Hacker News tendency toward armchair expertise. The American grid system tends to produce hills that are unmanageable on a town or cargo bike, so bicycles are a fitness/enthusiast thing. And US cities are much more spread out, too. In more walkable European cities, these bikes make a lot of sense.
- StopDisinfo910 1y ago
  The discussion is very much a case of people from the USA having the far too rare realisation than most places in Europe have nothing in common with their country.
- Freak_NL 1y ago
  These would work beautifully in Dutch cities, although you can easily see from the design that its native biotope is Paris, where cars are increasingly being pushed out of the narrow streets.
- Theodores 1y ago
  There are so many excuses for why Americans don't ride. I have not heard about the grid system making the hills too steep before, but I suppose it applies to San Francisco, so I concede that could be a legitimate excuse. I went to SF with a heavily laden tourer bike and I found the hills manageable as you get a breather at the stop lights. I made good progress despite the hills. I might have only had 40kgs of cargo, but I did get an idea of the challenges. There is much to criticise but there is so much to like. The sprawl of US cities was not a problem for me, it was a lot easier and less stressful on US roads than what we get in the UK. The shoulders on most US roads are defacto cycle lanes, which I really liked since a good speed could be maintained. As a British observer, I can't help but laugh at how everything in the US is bigger. I do my grocery shopping by bicycle and I am the only person in the supermarket carrying 30kgs of stuff up a very steep hill. Everyone else drives. My bike is a normal one, but I feel that, if I was American, then I would be compelled to have some special needs bike, either a cargo bike or electric, to 'haul' even more stuff. Everything just has to be bigger!!! The book of excuses for not cycling is massive in America, but, I have never been to a better place for utility cycling. The whole place is really well set up for utility cycling, you just have to see it that way. Fitness cycling is a high status pursuit, much like those silly games like tennis that were invented just to show how high status you are. Golf is the classic, so much arable land not under the plough is a true flex of wealth. Fitness cycling shows that you are not working class, that you have the resources to not work. Utility cycling is low status, it shows you can't afford a car or you have been banned. With utility cycling there is always a reason for the ride, it is not out of choice, if you don't do the ride, there will be consequences such as not having a job or having no food in. Yet there was a time before the car when all cycling was for utility reasons.
- wil421 1y ago
  My area doesn’t have grids or anything. To get out of my neighborhood I have 200 feet of elevation change and I’ve only gone half a mile.
- dathinab 1y ago
  Are you sure? From the major EU cities I have visited at least 2 which have many "hills that are unmanageable on a town or cargo bike" (Zürich & Lisbon). And if we include smaller places its many many more places. Now what "unmanageable" means can differ quite a lot by person. Like some people would call some of the streets in Lisbon "unmanageable" by walking ;) But then in both cases it only affects part of the city and throw in a E-Bike and thinks are often quite fine. Anyway the point is, the bike from the article seems quite far away from a general purpose cargo bike. But for places where it fit its niche it probably shines.
codersarepeople 1y ago
Cruzbikes have front-wheel drive via a very short chain. This allows them to use off-the-shelf components that all bikes use for a front hub. This is more like a unicycle hub, which are wildly different from bike parts (I would know, I built this: https://imgur.com/a/we-made-electric-assist-unicycle-long-version-1ySZM https://imgur.com/a/we-made-electric-assist-unicycle-long-ve...) Right now, there is only one multi-geared commercially available unicycle hub, and it only has 2 gears, and costs $1500 (Schlumpf drive). As for ebike motors that can be coaxial with pedals, as far as I know 2 have ever been made, by myself and by Justin @ ebikes.ca. The entire unicycle community would be thrilled if they actually built this because then we could buy these hubs. But I would be very surprised to see this launch with a unique hub, instead of a cruzbike-like hub.
- lmm 1y ago
  Yep. There was a Kervelo concept chainless recumbent design that worked similarly and looked very cool (with a 14-speed hub!), but I hear they couldn't get it funded to actually be produced.
- jodrellblank 1y ago
  > "there is only one multi-geared commercially available unicycle hub, and it only has 2 gears, and costs $1500 (Schlumpf drive)" The Kwiggle folding bike in Germany[1] took over manufacturing of the Schlumpf drive in 2023[2] and uses it for their 6-speed option. It's in the bottom bracket and shifts by hitting the axle left/right with the heels. (costs ~€2000 and surely the front gear is not three quarters of that?). [1] https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/ https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/ [2] https://www.drive-mobility.com/en https://www.drive-mobility.com/en "We, KwiggleBike GmbH, have been managing the business of Haberstock Mobility GmbH since 01.04.2024. We have been manufacturing all Schlumpfdrives since mid-2023"
  - codersarepeople 1y ago
    There are 2 schlumpf drives; there is a bottom bracket-compatible one like you describe. That is used for recumbent bikes and a few niche things like Kiwgglebikes. However, they still power the wheel with a chain. The unicycle hubs, which are the same as shown in the cyclauto, have no chain; the hub is also the center of all the spokes on the wheel. But yes, they are basically the same thing. I'm sure it doesn't cost $1500 to produce, that's just the cost to consumers. My point wasn't that it's ridiculously expensive (which it is), but that this seems like a really high hurdle to produce the cyclauto; no other company is currently producing the unicycle version, and even if they can manufacture them for, say $500, that's still astronomical compared to if they used the cruzbike model.
BrtByte 1y ago
Not every bike needs to bomb downhill at 40mph
- pletnes 1y ago
  I’ve done 60 kph, similar speed I’d say, on this one. Rides like a dream. https://www.r-m.de/en-au/bikes/load-75/ https://www.r-m.de/en-au/bikes/load-75/
t-trash 1y ago
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bgnn 1y ago

People comparing these with racing bikes is so unbelievable.

elliottkember 1y ago

The comment asking about riding positions drop bars was hilarious. Lots of Americans in the comments is probably why, plus the Hacker News tendency toward armchair expertise. The American grid system tends to produce hills that are unmanageable on a town or cargo bike, so bicycles are a fitness/enthusiast thing. And US cities are much more spread out, too. In more walkable European cities, these bikes make a lot of sense.

StopDisinfo910 1y ago
The discussion is very much a case of people from the USA having the far too rare realisation than most places in Europe have nothing in common with their country.
Freak_NL 1y ago
These would work beautifully in Dutch cities, although you can easily see from the design that its native biotope is Paris, where cars are increasingly being pushed out of the narrow streets.
Theodores 1y ago
There are so many excuses for why Americans don't ride. I have not heard about the grid system making the hills too steep before, but I suppose it applies to San Francisco, so I concede that could be a legitimate excuse. I went to SF with a heavily laden tourer bike and I found the hills manageable as you get a breather at the stop lights. I made good progress despite the hills. I might have only had 40kgs of cargo, but I did get an idea of the challenges. There is much to criticise but there is so much to like. The sprawl of US cities was not a problem for me, it was a lot easier and less stressful on US roads than what we get in the UK. The shoulders on most US roads are defacto cycle lanes, which I really liked since a good speed could be maintained. As a British observer, I can't help but laugh at how everything in the US is bigger. I do my grocery shopping by bicycle and I am the only person in the supermarket carrying 30kgs of stuff up a very steep hill. Everyone else drives. My bike is a normal one, but I feel that, if I was American, then I would be compelled to have some special needs bike, either a cargo bike or electric, to 'haul' even more stuff. Everything just has to be bigger!!! The book of excuses for not cycling is massive in America, but, I have never been to a better place for utility cycling. The whole place is really well set up for utility cycling, you just have to see it that way. Fitness cycling is a high status pursuit, much like those silly games like tennis that were invented just to show how high status you are. Golf is the classic, so much arable land not under the plough is a true flex of wealth. Fitness cycling shows that you are not working class, that you have the resources to not work. Utility cycling is low status, it shows you can't afford a car or you have been banned. With utility cycling there is always a reason for the ride, it is not out of choice, if you don't do the ride, there will be consequences such as not having a job or having no food in. Yet there was a time before the car when all cycling was for utility reasons.
wil421 1y ago
My area doesn’t have grids or anything. To get out of my neighborhood I have 200 feet of elevation change and I’ve only gone half a mile.
dathinab 1y ago
Are you sure? From the major EU cities I have visited at least 2 which have many "hills that are unmanageable on a town or cargo bike" (Zürich & Lisbon). And if we include smaller places its many many more places. Now what "unmanageable" means can differ quite a lot by person. Like some people would call some of the streets in Lisbon "unmanageable" by walking ;) But then in both cases it only affects part of the city and throw in a E-Bike and thinks are often quite fine. Anyway the point is, the bike from the article seems quite far away from a general purpose cargo bike. But for places where it fit its niche it probably shines.

codersarepeople 1y ago

Cruzbikes have front-wheel drive via a very short chain. This allows them to use off-the-shelf components that all bikes use for a front hub. This is more like a unicycle hub, which are wildly different from bike parts (I would know, I built this: https://imgur.com/a/we-made-electric-assist-unicycle-long-version-1ySZM https://imgur.com/a/we-made-electric-assist-unicycle-long-ve...) Right now, there is only one multi-geared commercially available unicycle hub, and it only has 2 gears, and costs $1500 (Schlumpf drive). As for ebike motors that can be coaxial with pedals, as far as I know 2 have ever been made, by myself and by Justin @ ebikes.ca. The entire unicycle community would be thrilled if they actually built this because then we could buy these hubs. But I would be very surprised to see this launch with a unique hub, instead of a cruzbike-like hub.

lmm 1y ago
Yep. There was a Kervelo concept chainless recumbent design that worked similarly and looked very cool (with a 14-speed hub!), but I hear they couldn't get it funded to actually be produced.
jodrellblank 1y ago
> "there is only one multi-geared commercially available unicycle hub, and it only has 2 gears, and costs $1500 (Schlumpf drive)" The Kwiggle folding bike in Germany[1] took over manufacturing of the Schlumpf drive in 2023[2] and uses it for their 6-speed option. It's in the bottom bracket and shifts by hitting the axle left/right with the heels. (costs ~€2000 and surely the front gear is not three quarters of that?). [1] https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/ https://www.kwigglebike.com/en_US/ [2] https://www.drive-mobility.com/en https://www.drive-mobility.com/en "We, KwiggleBike GmbH, have been managing the business of Haberstock Mobility GmbH since 01.04.2024. We have been manufacturing all Schlumpfdrives since mid-2023"
- codersarepeople 1y ago
  There are 2 schlumpf drives; there is a bottom bracket-compatible one like you describe. That is used for recumbent bikes and a few niche things like Kiwgglebikes. However, they still power the wheel with a chain. The unicycle hubs, which are the same as shown in the cyclauto, have no chain; the hub is also the center of all the spokes on the wheel. But yes, they are basically the same thing. I'm sure it doesn't cost $1500 to produce, that's just the cost to consumers. My point wasn't that it's ridiculously expensive (which it is), but that this seems like a really high hurdle to produce the cyclauto; no other company is currently producing the unicycle version, and even if they can manufacture them for, say $500, that's still astronomical compared to if they used the cruzbike model.

BrtByte 1y ago

Not every bike needs to bomb downhill at 40mph

pletnes 1y ago
I’ve done 60 kph, similar speed I’d say, on this one. Rides like a dream. https://www.r-m.de/en-au/bikes/load-75/ https://www.r-m.de/en-au/bikes/load-75/

t-trash 1y ago

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