4 ms·

No pedestrian crossings. No bike lanes. No escape from the noise of thousands of tires going at high speed. No escape from the air pollution of eroding tires an

by goda90 1y ago

No pedestrian crossings. No bike lanes. No escape from the noise of thousands of tires going at high speed. No escape from the air pollution of eroding tires and brakes. A vision of that future from a skeptic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=040ejWnFkj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=040ejWnFkj0

xnx 1y ago
Certainly some unknowns, but I'm optimistic. > No pedestrian crossings. Everywhere is a pedestrian crossing when you know that every vehicle sees you and will slow/stop if it anticipates you will enter its path. > No bike lanes. I'm an urban bike commuter and would be delighted to share the road with autonomous vehicles instead of human-driven ones. > No escape from the noise of thousands of tires going at high speed. I live 60 ft from a highway and would trade the noise of 1 speeding, honking, revving, modified-exhaust having human driven car for 100 well-maintained speed-limit obeying Waymo's. > No escape from the air pollution of eroding tires and brakes. Gentle starts and stops from a well-maintained (e.g. proper tire inflation) autonomous vehicle will create less of both of those than the average human-driven vehicle. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=040ejWnFkj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=040ejWnFkj0 I like a diversity of viewpoints, and glad there are people advocating for pedestrian and cyclist use of roads, but I find very little I agree with in Not Just Bikes pessimism.
- goda90 1y ago
  > I live 60 ft from a highway and would trade the noise of 1 speeding, honking, revving, modified-exhaust having human driven car for 100 well-maintained speed-limit obeying Waymo's. The speed limit will certainly be increased if only autonomous vehicles are allowed. It's an easy sell in the city council meetings. I suggest you watch the video. It may be pessimistic but it makes valid arguments worth keeping in mind when considering that future.
  - gs17 1y ago
    > The speed limit will certainly be increased if only autonomous vehicles are allowed. If the vehicles are safe enough to be allowed to drive faster than humans did on the same roads, why not?
    - xnx 1y ago
      > why not? Road noise? My concern about road noise from higher-speed EV AV's is much lower than ICE human-driven vehicles at a lower (posted) speed.
      - goda90 1y ago
        Tire noise increases with speed and weight. At freeway speeds, tires make 60% of the noise of a typical ICE vehicle[0]. Electric cars are also heavier than ICE vehicle due to the battery. High speed AV only roads would probably have more cars on them too, so even more noise. [0]https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-may-12-hy-wheels12-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-may-12-hy-wheel...
        xnx 1y ago
        Yes. In my personal road situation I'd be happy to exchange more tire noise (which is more of a consistent white noise) for the abrupt and annoying other car sounds. There's still a chance that net tire noise would be same or less: "Tires running higher inflation pressures generate lower noise levels compared to those with lower inflation levels." https://www.tirereview.com/the-fight-against-tire-noise/ https://www.tirereview.com/the-fight-against-tire-noise/ I suspect that other design choices (e.g. fender skirts like on the Honda Insight) could be made that would further reduce tire noise.
    - goda90 1y ago
      In the video I linked it goes over various reasons that would be a bad: road noise(tire noise exceeds ICE engine noise at pretty low speeds, so being an EV doesn't help), asphalt erosion, tire erosion, brake erosion, all of which are pollution as well.

by goda90 1y ago

xnx 1y ago

Certainly some unknowns, but I'm optimistic. > No pedestrian crossings. Everywhere is a pedestrian crossing when you know that every vehicle sees you and will slow/stop if it anticipates you will enter its path. > No bike lanes. I'm an urban bike commuter and would be delighted to share the road with autonomous vehicles instead of human-driven ones. > No escape from the noise of thousands of tires going at high speed. I live 60 ft from a highway and would trade the noise of 1 speeding, honking, revving, modified-exhaust having human driven car for 100 well-maintained speed-limit obeying Waymo's. > No escape from the air pollution of eroding tires and brakes. Gentle starts and stops from a well-maintained (e.g. proper tire inflation) autonomous vehicle will create less of both of those than the average human-driven vehicle. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=040ejWnFkj0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=040ejWnFkj0 I like a diversity of viewpoints, and glad there are people advocating for pedestrian and cyclist use of roads, but I find very little I agree with in Not Just Bikes pessimism.

goda90 1y ago
> I live 60 ft from a highway and would trade the noise of 1 speeding, honking, revving, modified-exhaust having human driven car for 100 well-maintained speed-limit obeying Waymo's. The speed limit will certainly be increased if only autonomous vehicles are allowed. It's an easy sell in the city council meetings. I suggest you watch the video. It may be pessimistic but it makes valid arguments worth keeping in mind when considering that future.
- gs17 1y ago
  > The speed limit will certainly be increased if only autonomous vehicles are allowed. If the vehicles are safe enough to be allowed to drive faster than humans did on the same roads, why not?
  - xnx 1y ago
    > why not? Road noise? My concern about road noise from higher-speed EV AV's is much lower than ICE human-driven vehicles at a lower (posted) speed.
    - goda90 1y ago
      Tire noise increases with speed and weight. At freeway speeds, tires make 60% of the noise of a typical ICE vehicle[0]. Electric cars are also heavier than ICE vehicle due to the battery. High speed AV only roads would probably have more cars on them too, so even more noise. [0]https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-may-12-hy-wheels12-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-may-12-hy-wheel...
      - xnx 1y ago
        Yes. In my personal road situation I'd be happy to exchange more tire noise (which is more of a consistent white noise) for the abrupt and annoying other car sounds. There's still a chance that net tire noise would be same or less: "Tires running higher inflation pressures generate lower noise levels compared to those with lower inflation levels." https://www.tirereview.com/the-fight-against-tire-noise/ https://www.tirereview.com/the-fight-against-tire-noise/ I suspect that other design choices (e.g. fender skirts like on the Honda Insight) could be made that would further reduce tire noise.
  - goda90 1y ago
    In the video I linked it goes over various reasons that would be a bad: road noise(tire noise exceeds ICE engine noise at pretty low speeds, so being an EV doesn't help), asphalt erosion, tire erosion, brake erosion, all of which are pollution as well.