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In Colorado, a law went into effect at the beginning of 2025 that showed you how much of the actual fare the driver gets. I took an Uber ride to the airport las

In Colorado, a law went into effect at the beginning of 2025 that showed you how much of the actual fare the driver gets. I took an Uber ride to the airport last week and the total cost was ~$98 before tip, and the drivers share of that was reported as ~$41. I don't see how it makes sense that Uber for connecting me to a driver gets close to 60% of the fare, while the driver who does all the work, puts miles onto their car, etc, gets less than half of the fare.

dingnuts 1y ago
Except at some level you do obviously believe that using the app was worth $57, because you didn't end the story by saying you called a cab company and got a big discount by doing it the old fashioned way. OR could it be that the scheduling, summoning, and advertising infrastructure is actually close to 60% of the cost, and the added convenience of the app is in fact worth the difference in price?
- riffraff 1y ago
  Taxi could be more expensive than Uber for the same reason AirBnB is cheaper than hotels: they do not respect the same standards (e.g. insurance, worker rights, etc). Not same this is the case, but there's more than convenience embedded in markets.
- ngangaga 1y ago
  > Except at some level you do obviously believe that using the app was worth $57 That's ridiculous. "because you didn't end the story by saying you called a cab company and got a big discount by doing it the old fashioned way." is just bad-faith weaseling. Uber is worse in every way than the taxi stands that used to be at airports; now you hail a car via an expensive app and have to wait for them to all jockey to where you are if they don't bail on the way. Taxi stands still make the most sense at events and leaving mass transit and that's even before considering the ridiculous cost. Visiting europe felt like a breath of fresh air in comparison—technically they have uber, but there was no point in using it because taxis were so prevalent, reliable, and cheap.
  - chgs 1y ago
    Part time I went to Paris I had a 30 minute wait for a taxi at Gare du Nord. However last time I was as Dulles I wanted straight into a taxi, having been burnt the previous time when I ordered uber while going through customs and had to wait for ages. At Singapore Changi taxi queues can take ages, or no time at all. In Kenya I waited for an uber for 40 minutes to have it cancelled by the driver as I saw him get close to the airport, with a message saying he had “been arrested”. I don’t bother with uber in the U.K. any more - very rarely works. Used to be nice and reliable in cities It was in, about 10 years ago. You can’t draw a conclusion based on personal annecdotes.
    - ngangaga 1y ago
      Hm, fair enough. Oddly Dulles is my local airport and I wasn't able to find any taxis the last time I flew in. Clearly I'm looking in the wrong place.
  - thaumasiotes 1y ago
    > Visiting europe felt like a breath of fresh air in comparison—technically they have uber, but there was no point in using it because taxis were so prevalent, reliable, and cheap. Taxis in Shanghai have been largely replaced by app-related taxis. I have no particular knowledge of whether this moved prices up or down. But there are two obvious changes: 1. It's now possible to get a taxi when it's raining. 2. The app drivers feel free to smoke. Point 2 is a negative, but point 1 is a huge positive. How do European taxis respond to the rain?
    - ngangaga 1y ago
      TBH, Uber wouldn't be so much of a problem with decent competition. But the critical mass required for a transit app is quite difficult to establish, and Lyft offers essentially the same deal with a slightly better margin for drivers. It's a de-facto duopoly here in the US where the two companies are incentivized to drive prices as high as the market will sustain, and the local apps (for instance we have one here in DC that is a co-op) are often legislated out of existence. > Taxis in Shanghai have been largely replaced by app-related taxis. The APP itself isn't the issue, it's the pricing. But it sounds like China has a much healthier market than we have. > 1. It's now possible to get a taxi when it's raining. Why would this make so much of a difference? I'm very curious.
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  Why would the old fashioned way be a big discount? Old fashioned taxi companies are not taking 0%. > scheduling, summoning, and advertising infrastructure is actually close to 60% of the cost Funny story about that - "pre-booking" an Uber for a future date costs something like an additional 20% on top of the actual fare. Made that mistake once and never again.
  - InitialLastName 1y ago
    > Funny story about that - "pre-booking" an Uber for a future date costs something like an additional 20% on top of the actual fare. Made that mistake once and never agai Addendum from my funny story: It doesn't even really guarantee there will be a driver for you. A few years ago I "pre-booked" a car for an airport ride at an inconvenient time, only to have it cancelled as the driver was meant to show up. Luckily driver were more available than I expected they would be and I had another within a few minutes, but I could have been really screwed over.
- adocomplete 1y ago
  I remember reading about the law going into effect but had never seen the split broken out until last week. I highly doubt the scheduling, summoning, and advertising infra is close to 60% of the cost. I like Uber, I've been a customer for a long time. It's invaluable when visiting a new place imo. I also think they can and should pay their drivers more.
- lenerdenator 1y ago
  Or it could be that a massive influx of VC money into the for-hire transportation market allowed for a player (Uber) to more-or-less set prices as it found desirable. OC has something they must do: get from point A to point B. If your choices for doing so have been restricted by anticompetitive behavior on the part of a market player, you will have to do so by a less consumer-friendly set of rules.
- Buttons840 1y ago
  We live in a society where the largest and most successful companies got that way by NOT making a profit, and now you're going to bring out the free market arguments?
dfxm12 1y ago
Does anyone know what the intent of this law is?
- adocomplete 1y ago
  Transparency, it had a bunch of other stuff to help both drivers and riders have a bit of insight into how it all works. More info: https://www.senatedems.co/newsroom/icymi-bill-to-improve-gig-worker-rights-boost-transparency-becomes-law https://www.senatedems.co/newsroom/icymi-bill-to-improve-gig...
- ProllyInfamous 1y ago
  IANAL (also, not from Colorado; never used a rideshare); it seems that this would provide benefit to both drivers and riders. My nephew used to commute to work via rideshare, and would usually work outside deals with regular drivers. Knowing how much each person in the rideshare might save would definitely incentivize out-of-network rides.
  - dfxm12 1y ago
    I have doubts that the intent of the law was to encourage people to hire gypsy cabs.
    - ProllyInfamous 1y ago
      Unintended consequences, or not, presuming the rider/gypsy decide to "split the difference": that's still 110% more money staying within the local economy. With obvious safety concerns/trade-offs.
AlexandrB 1y ago
It's hard to find a specific number, but that seems like it's even more than "traditional" taxi companies take. So the enshittification has come full circle - Uber is now priced basically the same as traditional taxis and takes a possibly bigger cut for themselves without any of the overhead or capex of a traditional taxi company. Filing this away under: don't ever believe tech company hype.
- TeMPOraL 1y ago
  Always have been. What they never were, was "the underdog fighting taxi mafia". That's just propaganda. They beat "taxi mafias", plural, with divide-and-conquer, market after market, and they did that as a multinational corporation with ~infinite money supply thanks to VC funding. Uber is a story of the Goliath going from town to town and beating everyone's Davids.
  - CamperBob2 1y ago
    Whatever. When I call an Uber, it shows up. That's more than I could ever say for taxis.
    - floren 1y ago
      Shows up sometimes. Sometimes it wanders off for 10 minutes because the driver is finishing a Lyft ride first but accepted your fare anyway, or they got lost, or they stopped to pick up food (all of these have happened to me)
      - TeMPOraL 1y ago
        Yes, this. Sometimes they cancel because they claim they have a malfunction. Sometimes they cancel because fuck you, that's why. Almost cost me an appointment with the doctor when our small kid got sick and a driver strung us for 15 minutes of extra wait time while he circled a grocery store, then claimed his car broke down. I don't trust those companies with important stuff anymore, I either go straight for public transport, or in some cases (airport) I pre-book an early enough departure to still be able to catch a bus to airport if the driver doesn't show.
charcircuit 1y ago
Drivers compete against each other. There could be a high demand for people wanting to leave the air port and a high supply of cars at the airport.
alwa 1y ago
I seem to remember Uber’s tilt to profitability coinciding with a move to extend their “dynamic pricing” to a driver-side reverse auction for fares, which they called “Trip Radar.” Mysteriously I’m having trouble finding much reference to it now, although I remember it being discussed at the time… the only real discussion I can find now is recent and vaguely agenda-flavored [0]. Complete with extra-weaselly non-denial denials from Uber’s PR. > In 2024, American media non-profit More Perfect Union conducted an experiment to discover whether Uber’s algorithms facilitate wage discrimination. It gathered seven experienced Uber drivers together in a high-traffic area in Los Angeles and asked each of them to open up the app and place their phones on a table next to each other. It found that Uber offered the same rides 46 times to multiple drivers, and that there was discrepancy between fares for 63% of those trips. Uber refuted that this was discrimination, saying in a blog post that differing pay was due to GPS discrepancies. So the drivers bid each other down, while the riders bid each other up through “surge pricing” (even as they’re individually priced according to their willingness to pay). Nice market position if you can get it… It’s a good party trick if they’ve clocked you, like they apparently have me, as a total cheapskate. As a rider I routinely see prices 50%-70% of those Uber offers to my richer and less price-sensitive friends when we call for the exact same ride from the same place at the same time, whether I call first or second… [0] https://novaramedia.com/2025/03/06/taken-for-a-ride-inside-ubers-new-race-to-the-bottom/ https://novaramedia.com/2025/03/06/taken-for-a-ride-inside-u...
- scoofy 1y ago
  >Nice market position if you can get it… Yea, natural monopolies that are somehow allowed to exist will do that.
  - treis 1y ago
    They aren't a natural monopoly. Lyft and Curb exist and so do legacy taxis and car services.
    - scoofy 1y ago
      They are a natural monopoly. All network-based marketplaces with barriers to entry are. That competitors exist does not make them not a natural monopoly. Even the fact that the are not a current monopoly does not mean they are not a natural monopoly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly
supernovae 1y ago
I don't have the answer as it pertains to Uber, but the "marketplace" approach to things is pretty universal. Ebay fees are upwards of 10-15%. Amazon fees can be as high as 45% Apple's app store fee can be 15 to 30% Uber wants to get you coming and going by charging a Sub on the front end and splitting fees on the backend... it's like the worst of capitalism

dingnuts 1y ago

Except at some level you do obviously believe that using the app was worth $57, because you didn't end the story by saying you called a cab company and got a big discount by doing it the old fashioned way. OR could it be that the scheduling, summoning, and advertising infrastructure is actually close to 60% of the cost, and the added convenience of the app is in fact worth the difference in price?

riffraff 1y ago
Taxi could be more expensive than Uber for the same reason AirBnB is cheaper than hotels: they do not respect the same standards (e.g. insurance, worker rights, etc). Not same this is the case, but there's more than convenience embedded in markets.
ngangaga 1y ago
> Except at some level you do obviously believe that using the app was worth $57 That's ridiculous. "because you didn't end the story by saying you called a cab company and got a big discount by doing it the old fashioned way." is just bad-faith weaseling. Uber is worse in every way than the taxi stands that used to be at airports; now you hail a car via an expensive app and have to wait for them to all jockey to where you are if they don't bail on the way. Taxi stands still make the most sense at events and leaving mass transit and that's even before considering the ridiculous cost. Visiting europe felt like a breath of fresh air in comparison—technically they have uber, but there was no point in using it because taxis were so prevalent, reliable, and cheap.
- chgs 1y ago
  Part time I went to Paris I had a 30 minute wait for a taxi at Gare du Nord. However last time I was as Dulles I wanted straight into a taxi, having been burnt the previous time when I ordered uber while going through customs and had to wait for ages. At Singapore Changi taxi queues can take ages, or no time at all. In Kenya I waited for an uber for 40 minutes to have it cancelled by the driver as I saw him get close to the airport, with a message saying he had “been arrested”. I don’t bother with uber in the U.K. any more - very rarely works. Used to be nice and reliable in cities It was in, about 10 years ago. You can’t draw a conclusion based on personal annecdotes.
  - ngangaga 1y ago
    Hm, fair enough. Oddly Dulles is my local airport and I wasn't able to find any taxis the last time I flew in. Clearly I'm looking in the wrong place.
- thaumasiotes 1y ago
  > Visiting europe felt like a breath of fresh air in comparison—technically they have uber, but there was no point in using it because taxis were so prevalent, reliable, and cheap. Taxis in Shanghai have been largely replaced by app-related taxis. I have no particular knowledge of whether this moved prices up or down. But there are two obvious changes: 1. It's now possible to get a taxi when it's raining. 2. The app drivers feel free to smoke. Point 2 is a negative, but point 1 is a huge positive. How do European taxis respond to the rain?
  - ngangaga 1y ago
    TBH, Uber wouldn't be so much of a problem with decent competition. But the critical mass required for a transit app is quite difficult to establish, and Lyft offers essentially the same deal with a slightly better margin for drivers. It's a de-facto duopoly here in the US where the two companies are incentivized to drive prices as high as the market will sustain, and the local apps (for instance we have one here in DC that is a co-op) are often legislated out of existence. > Taxis in Shanghai have been largely replaced by app-related taxis. The APP itself isn't the issue, it's the pricing. But it sounds like China has a much healthier market than we have. > 1. It's now possible to get a taxi when it's raining. Why would this make so much of a difference? I'm very curious.
AlexandrB 1y ago
Why would the old fashioned way be a big discount? Old fashioned taxi companies are not taking 0%. > scheduling, summoning, and advertising infrastructure is actually close to 60% of the cost Funny story about that - "pre-booking" an Uber for a future date costs something like an additional 20% on top of the actual fare. Made that mistake once and never again.
- InitialLastName 1y ago
  > Funny story about that - "pre-booking" an Uber for a future date costs something like an additional 20% on top of the actual fare. Made that mistake once and never agai Addendum from my funny story: It doesn't even really guarantee there will be a driver for you. A few years ago I "pre-booked" a car for an airport ride at an inconvenient time, only to have it cancelled as the driver was meant to show up. Luckily driver were more available than I expected they would be and I had another within a few minutes, but I could have been really screwed over.
adocomplete 1y ago
I remember reading about the law going into effect but had never seen the split broken out until last week. I highly doubt the scheduling, summoning, and advertising infra is close to 60% of the cost. I like Uber, I've been a customer for a long time. It's invaluable when visiting a new place imo. I also think they can and should pay their drivers more.
lenerdenator 1y ago
Or it could be that a massive influx of VC money into the for-hire transportation market allowed for a player (Uber) to more-or-less set prices as it found desirable. OC has something they must do: get from point A to point B. If your choices for doing so have been restricted by anticompetitive behavior on the part of a market player, you will have to do so by a less consumer-friendly set of rules.
Buttons840 1y ago
We live in a society where the largest and most successful companies got that way by NOT making a profit, and now you're going to bring out the free market arguments?

dfxm12 1y ago

Does anyone know what the intent of this law is?

adocomplete 1y ago
Transparency, it had a bunch of other stuff to help both drivers and riders have a bit of insight into how it all works. More info: https://www.senatedems.co/newsroom/icymi-bill-to-improve-gig-worker-rights-boost-transparency-becomes-law https://www.senatedems.co/newsroom/icymi-bill-to-improve-gig...
ProllyInfamous 1y ago
IANAL (also, not from Colorado; never used a rideshare); it seems that this would provide benefit to both drivers and riders. My nephew used to commute to work via rideshare, and would usually work outside deals with regular drivers. Knowing how much each person in the rideshare might save would definitely incentivize out-of-network rides.
- dfxm12 1y ago
  I have doubts that the intent of the law was to encourage people to hire gypsy cabs.
  - ProllyInfamous 1y ago
    Unintended consequences, or not, presuming the rider/gypsy decide to "split the difference": that's still 110% more money staying within the local economy. With obvious safety concerns/trade-offs.

AlexandrB 1y ago

It's hard to find a specific number, but that seems like it's even more than "traditional" taxi companies take. So the enshittification has come full circle - Uber is now priced basically the same as traditional taxis and takes a possibly bigger cut for themselves without any of the overhead or capex of a traditional taxi company. Filing this away under: don't ever believe tech company hype.

TeMPOraL 1y ago
Always have been. What they never were, was "the underdog fighting taxi mafia". That's just propaganda. They beat "taxi mafias", plural, with divide-and-conquer, market after market, and they did that as a multinational corporation with ~infinite money supply thanks to VC funding. Uber is a story of the Goliath going from town to town and beating everyone's Davids.
- CamperBob2 1y ago
  Whatever. When I call an Uber, it shows up. That's more than I could ever say for taxis.
  - floren 1y ago
    Shows up sometimes. Sometimes it wanders off for 10 minutes because the driver is finishing a Lyft ride first but accepted your fare anyway, or they got lost, or they stopped to pick up food (all of these have happened to me)
    - TeMPOraL 1y ago
      Yes, this. Sometimes they cancel because they claim they have a malfunction. Sometimes they cancel because fuck you, that's why. Almost cost me an appointment with the doctor when our small kid got sick and a driver strung us for 15 minutes of extra wait time while he circled a grocery store, then claimed his car broke down. I don't trust those companies with important stuff anymore, I either go straight for public transport, or in some cases (airport) I pre-book an early enough departure to still be able to catch a bus to airport if the driver doesn't show.

charcircuit 1y ago

Drivers compete against each other. There could be a high demand for people wanting to leave the air port and a high supply of cars at the airport.

alwa 1y ago

I seem to remember Uber’s tilt to profitability coinciding with a move to extend their “dynamic pricing” to a driver-side reverse auction for fares, which they called “Trip Radar.” Mysteriously I’m having trouble finding much reference to it now, although I remember it being discussed at the time… the only real discussion I can find now is recent and vaguely agenda-flavored [0]. Complete with extra-weaselly non-denial denials from Uber’s PR. > In 2024, American media non-profit More Perfect Union conducted an experiment to discover whether Uber’s algorithms facilitate wage discrimination. It gathered seven experienced Uber drivers together in a high-traffic area in Los Angeles and asked each of them to open up the app and place their phones on a table next to each other. It found that Uber offered the same rides 46 times to multiple drivers, and that there was discrepancy between fares for 63% of those trips. Uber refuted that this was discrimination, saying in a blog post that differing pay was due to GPS discrepancies. So the drivers bid each other down, while the riders bid each other up through “surge pricing” (even as they’re individually priced according to their willingness to pay). Nice market position if you can get it… It’s a good party trick if they’ve clocked you, like they apparently have me, as a total cheapskate. As a rider I routinely see prices 50%-70% of those Uber offers to my richer and less price-sensitive friends when we call for the exact same ride from the same place at the same time, whether I call first or second… [0] https://novaramedia.com/2025/03/06/taken-for-a-ride-inside-ubers-new-race-to-the-bottom/ https://novaramedia.com/2025/03/06/taken-for-a-ride-inside-u...

scoofy 1y ago
>Nice market position if you can get it… Yea, natural monopolies that are somehow allowed to exist will do that.
- treis 1y ago
  They aren't a natural monopoly. Lyft and Curb exist and so do legacy taxis and car services.
  - scoofy 1y ago
    They are a natural monopoly. All network-based marketplaces with barriers to entry are. That competitors exist does not make them not a natural monopoly. Even the fact that the are not a current monopoly does not mean they are not a natural monopoly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly

supernovae 1y ago

I don't have the answer as it pertains to Uber, but the "marketplace" approach to things is pretty universal. Ebay fees are upwards of 10-15%. Amazon fees can be as high as 45% Apple's app store fee can be 15 to 30% Uber wants to get you coming and going by charging a Sub on the front end and splitting fees on the backend... it's like the worst of capitalism