4 ms·

I don't understand, why does it matter?

by hbien 18y ago

jstraszheim 18y ago
If it did matter, what would we learn by comparing .NET books w/ Rails books, or Seaside books with Django books. Surely the number of books isn't the point.
- snprbob86 18y ago
  A point well illustrated by this particular book from the Rails list: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0470374950/pushcx-20/ref=nosim http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0470374950/pushcx-20/...
mechanical_fish 18y ago
Well, the article says: I’ll write about why this matters tomorrow. Tune in tomorrow! All I can figure is that either (a) Java and/or PHP are about to declare "victory" again, whatever that means, or (b) it will be concluded that the framework with the smallest number of books is superior because the docs are DRYer than everybody else's docs. Which might well be another moral victory for some obscure Lisp dialect. I'm holding out for option (c): A collectible card game in which teams of software books are assembled to fight holy wars against each other. SICP, I choose you!
- sharkbrainguy 18y ago
  Goddamnit, Now I'm writing rules in my head!
- GrandMasterBirt 18y ago
  That sneaky sonofabitch! RoR obviously gained some massive popularity. However I don't understand why Django did not gain as much as RoR did. Python is a damn good language, which by the way is gaining some momentum due to google's big fat presence with the app engine. So why is Ruby so popular? To be honest I am actually pretty unhappy with ruby (don't give me any more one-liner ruby scripts or I will bitch-smack yo ass) with how easy it is to make that language unreadable compared to say... python. I work with a web server built in javascript and can tell you that with a loosely structured dynamic language it is horribly easy even for decent programmers to make unreadable code.
  - dasil003 18y ago
    However I don't understand why Django did not gain as much as RoR did Two reasons. First, unlike Python, Ruby didn't have any viable web framework in 2004, so it was easy to attract Ruby developers. Second, and more importantly, David is much better marketer than Adrian. He poked the J2EE hornet's nest and evangelized the hell out of Rails for the first year and really got the snowball rolling.
    - FraaJad 18y ago
      and also because python programmers are confident of their language and ecosystem not to resort to gimmicks like the "F* You" slides. It could have ended badly for Rails except that lot of Java developers ended up tasting the heady mix of dynamic languages and web 2.0 via Rails thanks to Java gurus like Martin Fowler. And coming from the staid world of Java, a colourful character and opinionated framework was hip and happening. Meanwhile, pythoneers did what they do best, keep producing good code and documentation. This is a recurring theme across many areas where python is good at not just web frameworks. Python does not nurture over the top behaviour (I notice that neither does Ruby.. Rails is another matter).
      - dasil003 18y ago
        and also because python programmers are confident of their language and ecosystem not to resort to gimmicks But not confident enough to be just a little bitter about Rails' success? Seriously, if you think DHH is an asshole then say so. Maybe you would never sink to his level to promote your project. Fine. But jumping to the conclusion that he's not confident of his language is just rationalization. The ugly truth is that brilliant tech is ignored every day because someone didn't know how to market it.
almost 18y ago
Affiliate links to amazon? This has got to be the lamest excuse for posting a bunch of amazon links I've seen in a while. Usually there's at least some pretense of "reviewing" the titles.
- Scriptor 18y ago
  Wow, I hadn't even noticed that the images were linked, let alone they were affiliate links. This is a pretty low-quality attempt, both for a blog post and a pitch to get money.
  - Harkins 18y ago
    It's not a pitch to get money. I've been pondering this blog post for a while since I noticed the difference in a bookstore, and linking to Amazon was a hundred times easier than finding all the books on the websites of their respective publishers.

I don't understand, why does it matter?

by hbien 18y ago

I don't understand, why does it matter?

If it did matter, what would we learn by comparing .NET books w/ Rails books, or Seaside books with Django books. Surely the number of books isn't the point.

snprbob86 18y ago
A point well illustrated by this particular book from the Rails list: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0470374950/pushcx-20/ref=nosim http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0470374950/pushcx-20/...

mechanical_fish 18y ago

Well, the article says: I’ll write about why this matters tomorrow. Tune in tomorrow! All I can figure is that either (a) Java and/or PHP are about to declare "victory" again, whatever that means, or (b) it will be concluded that the framework with the smallest number of books is superior because the docs are DRYer than everybody else's docs. Which might well be another moral victory for some obscure Lisp dialect. I'm holding out for option (c): A collectible card game in which teams of software books are assembled to fight holy wars against each other. SICP, I choose you!

sharkbrainguy 18y ago
Goddamnit, Now I'm writing rules in my head!
GrandMasterBirt 18y ago
That sneaky sonofabitch! RoR obviously gained some massive popularity. However I don't understand why Django did not gain as much as RoR did. Python is a damn good language, which by the way is gaining some momentum due to google's big fat presence with the app engine. So why is Ruby so popular? To be honest I am actually pretty unhappy with ruby (don't give me any more one-liner ruby scripts or I will bitch-smack yo ass) with how easy it is to make that language unreadable compared to say... python. I work with a web server built in javascript and can tell you that with a loosely structured dynamic language it is horribly easy even for decent programmers to make unreadable code.
- dasil003 18y ago
  However I don't understand why Django did not gain as much as RoR did Two reasons. First, unlike Python, Ruby didn't have any viable web framework in 2004, so it was easy to attract Ruby developers. Second, and more importantly, David is much better marketer than Adrian. He poked the J2EE hornet's nest and evangelized the hell out of Rails for the first year and really got the snowball rolling.
  - FraaJad 18y ago
    and also because python programmers are confident of their language and ecosystem not to resort to gimmicks like the "F* You" slides. It could have ended badly for Rails except that lot of Java developers ended up tasting the heady mix of dynamic languages and web 2.0 via Rails thanks to Java gurus like Martin Fowler. And coming from the staid world of Java, a colourful character and opinionated framework was hip and happening. Meanwhile, pythoneers did what they do best, keep producing good code and documentation. This is a recurring theme across many areas where python is good at not just web frameworks. Python does not nurture over the top behaviour (I notice that neither does Ruby.. Rails is another matter).
    - dasil003 18y ago
      and also because python programmers are confident of their language and ecosystem not to resort to gimmicks But not confident enough to be just a little bitter about Rails' success? Seriously, if you think DHH is an asshole then say so. Maybe you would never sink to his level to promote your project. Fine. But jumping to the conclusion that he's not confident of his language is just rationalization. The ugly truth is that brilliant tech is ignored every day because someone didn't know how to market it.

almost 18y ago

Affiliate links to amazon? This has got to be the lamest excuse for posting a bunch of amazon links I've seen in a while. Usually there's at least some pretense of "reviewing" the titles.

Scriptor 18y ago
Wow, I hadn't even noticed that the images were linked, let alone they were affiliate links. This is a pretty low-quality attempt, both for a blog post and a pitch to get money.
- Harkins 18y ago
  It's not a pitch to get money. I've been pondering this blog post for a while since I noticed the difference in a bookstore, and linking to Amazon was a hundred times easier than finding all the books on the websites of their respective publishers.