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Sad to see the current state of mobile OSM-based apps. Maps.me becoming OrganicMaps, now this. Lot of development effort, great work going into it, but somehow,

by kmarc 1y ago

Sad to see the current state of mobile OSM-based apps. Maps.me becoming OrganicMaps, now this. Lot of development effort, great work going into it, but somehow, after years, the apps don't feel more user-friendly. I was pushing hard to replace Google Maps, but eventually, I gave up. OsmAnd is great if you need that "swiss army knife of OSM apps" on your phone, but I rarely do. Same with Maps.me/Organic Maps, try to search for something, mistype only one letter (surprise, surprise, that happens a lot on mobile), and you have no chance to get results. Alternative path for your bike route? Forget about it. Rendering is awful, either ugly, or slow, or both. I am trying to switch to Mapy.com (Mapy.cz before), it's a surprisingly user friendly app, however, not sure how they are going to monetize soon. So far the best on phone, I hope they will push and really become a Maps-replacement. They recently switched from a Czech-focused concept to a proper world-wide map (mapy.com); both web and mobile is great so far. (I am not Czech, and have no relation to mapy, simply really like their app) If OsmAnd got a new rendering engine (no, not that "3D" sluggish thing it has for a couple years now), like streetcomplete has (or the Strava-built-in mapbox renderer), it would be possibly the best.

saubeidl 1y ago
What do you think is the biggest UX issue with maps.me/organic maps/comaps/whatever?
- kjrfghslkdjfl 1y ago
  [dead]
- kmarc 1y ago
  The biggest for me is definitely the lack of public transportation. This is something even gnome-maps support. Global search (eg. things that are not downloaded yet) only works for some bigger entities, that are part of the world map (although I understand that this would need some server-side support). Not having a satellite map is also a bummer. Point-to-point navigation at places where you already downloaded maps is alright (same with osmand), but for exploration, or public trasnport, I would need to use moovit, mapy, osmand (wikipedia overlay is awesome), or google maps.
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    Oh that's a great callout. I did some quick research and it appears Gnome's public transport feature is powered by https://transitous.org/ https://transitous.org/ - I wonder how much work it would be to add this to Organic Maps?
    - maelito 1y ago
      Impossible in the medium term, unless Organic goes online.
      - johannes1234321 1y ago
        There is a lot one could do offline. Highlight close by stations, have overlays/styles for transport focus (they got an overlay for "Subway", which in some areas includes commuter trains but not for bus/tram/light rail/...) And in theory one could add bundles of data based on GTFS data which many transport organisations these days publish and do routing at least based on schedule times.
        maelito 1y ago
        Yes, but that would be miles behind G/A maps, on top of being hard to implement. E.g. Motis needs walk routing data that weights hundred of gigas.
        johannes1234321 1y ago
        Question is what it's for. A proper transport layer on the map would be valuable to me. Even without timetable data. That's even in relations on openstreetmap already. Next improvement might be to highlight lines based on frequency of service. Still possible to precalculate with little need on device. Routing ain't easy. That's true.
        will-bradley 1y ago
        We'd love to have your input for improved transit in CoMaps! I agree it's an important priority. Last GSoC there was a project for ingesting GTFS feeds against OSM data, since local agencies are often much better about their details than OSM is, but as a student project it was slow and limited in scope.
- shafyy 1y ago
  Not an UX thing, but I find myself going back to Google Maps to find restaurants, reviews and reliable opening hours all the time. Neither Apple Maps nor Organic Maps offers the same level of quality (not to say that Google Maps reviews can be problematic in themselves).
  - kmarc 1y ago
    The OsmAnd guys tried launching OpenPlaceReviews. https://2019.stateofthemap.org/sessions/LBGPCD/ https://2019.stateofthemap.org/sessions/LBGPCD/ Unfortunately it didn't take off, was discountinued in 2023. https://github.com/OpenPlaceReviews https://github.com/OpenPlaceReviews
    - notpushkin 1y ago
      Really sad, but understandable. Everybody’s going to Google because it’s where the most reviews are... because everybody’s going to Google.
  - stevage 1y ago
    It's almost impossible for anything to compete with Google Maps on business information because they have built such a vast commercial ecosystem around it with advertising, Maps users etc.
  - evantbyrne 1y ago
    And at least back when I tried it a long time ago, it wouldn't pull in updates from OSM in a timely manner. Like I updated something in OSM and a month later it still wasn't available in organic maps. Maybe it is better now?
- ravenstine 1y ago
  Search. I've wanted to like Organic Maps, but the search function is the absolute pits and forces me to still use Google Maps. Without good search, there's next to no point in me using it.
maelito 1y ago
> try to search for something, mistype only one letter Photon is quite good at this, coming with english/french/german plug-and-play. But it's online, so very hard to implement on each user's phone, which is the limitation of Organic and Osmand. Once you're using Photon or an equivalent project, you need to do a lot more to provide Google's experience : - itinerary suggestions like "from london to winchester" - coordinates detection - handle abbreviations like blvd, in all the languages (Nominatim does it better than Photon, from what I know) - handle category search, e.g. typing "coffee in Marais" -> a full-text-search won't work taking only the features' name, you need to do some semantic separation of terms - etc. > Alternative path for your bike route? Forget about it. Same pb : offline routing is harder. BRouter is excellent, with lots of alternatives, but online (can be installed on OSMand but it's nerdy). Disclaimer : I'm working on https://cartes.app https://cartes.app, a Web map app. We're using Photon and Brouter, but lots need to be done, including i18n to english, soon I hope !
- kmarc 1y ago
  this looks promising, thanks for sharing :-)
maelito 1y ago
> If OsmAnd got a new rendering engine (no, not that "3D" sluggish thing it has for a couple years now), like streetcomplete has (or the Strava-built-in mapbox renderer), it would be possibly the best. What "3D sluggish thing" are talking about ? Streetcomplete, like most OSM vector 3D maps use MapLibre, for a few months now https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/pull/5693 https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/pull/5693 Edit : sorry, I read Organic. Indeed OSMand is sluggish for me as well. I don't know why they went for something other than MapLibre. It's probably in-house and entangled in their code :/
- kmarc 1y ago
  Yes :-) Streetcomplete is amazing; I understand it provides less polygons to render but it does an absolutely amazing job at it, even when there are thousands of quests.
  - maelito 1y ago
    Yes, zooming in is so fast. I'd love to have this experience on mobile Web, we're not quite there yet. I suppose WebGPU is needed ?
  - ihatehn 1y ago
    It also uses online tiles afaik.
- palata 1y ago
  > I don't know why they went for something other than MapLibre. OSMAnd existed looong before MapLibre :-).
  - maelito 1y ago
    Sorry, what I wanted to say is I don't know why they stick with their stack, instead of doing like Streetcomplete.
    - palata 1y ago
medfield 1y ago
Agreed. I use organic maps for hiking, because its just simple offline trail mapping. I want a mapping program in my car to easily be offline, have map overlays that are easy to read like more pronounced lane/route arrows and can re route if there is a road shut down or a backup on the expressway and I go to get off. But my biggest gripe with using organic maps with driving is its search function. I couldnt care if it doesnt have all the online social features like google maps and come up with the police/safety warnings and restaurant ratings. I just want its seach to actually find the place I want to go. Most of the time I try and avoid using google maps, but then I go back and try organic maps. Notice it doesnt have where i want to go listed in its search, so i google the address to plug in. I can enter in the exact address and it wont find it and then go back to google maps.
- contrapunctus 1y ago
  Are you sure the address actually exists on OpenStreetMap? You can add it with StreetComplete (Android) or Go Map (iOS).
- jacekm 1y ago
  > map overlays that are easy to read like more pronounced lane/route arrows Try Magic Earth https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.generalmagic.magicearth https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.generalmag...
- palata 1y ago
  > Notice it doesnt have where i want to go listed in its search I live in an area where OSM is really good with that (just because people contributed the data). If your area is less complete, it feels like it's a good opportunity to contribute! There are many apps that will help you contribute to the map, or you can do it directly from the website: https://www.openstreetmap.org https://www.openstreetmap.org. It doesn't mean you need to spend tons of time on it: I contribute data a few times a year. It's better than nothing :-).
  - johannes1234321 1y ago
    It's not only about being tagged in Openstreetmap, it's about the search algorithm finding the relevant entry from ambiguous entry. Dealing with cases where things are spelled slightly differently (abbreviations etc.) or finding the relevant entry when common terms are used in names or search just by category.
jraph 1y ago
> Alternative path for your bike route? Forget about it. What do you mean? It's possible to add intermediate stops to shape your route. Or do you mean something else? With you on the search not being forgiving enough.
- kmarc 1y ago
  Other map apps offer different routes between two points, showing the trade-off in time. Organic Maps calculates one route, and it doesn't matter if it's through a deadly car-congested highway. My example is going from Zürich West to Downtown. Here is my experience: * Organic maps: calculates fast, although through a street with a lot of traffic, no alternatives offered. * OsmAnd: takes 5 seconds on a flagship phone to RENDER the current view. I try to avoid zoom and pan. What the hell. Calculating the navigation is either a couple seconds or a minute. The whole UX is totally broken, however, at least you can select to prefer byways / bicycle routes. * Mapy: fast rendering, fast pathfinding, alternatives offered, configurable to use bike paths. * Google Maps: totally random what happens, it's a combination of the above (I guess it tries to use live traffic data, too?) Now the funny thing is that there is an actual signaled bicycle path (which I prefer, since it avoids traffic), and OSM does have this data. None of the app would prefer that path, unfortunately (it's maybe 20 minutes instead of 18 minutes, but much safer). It feels like most of the apps are hyperfocused on one type of navigation / exploration / feature set (being offline is huge, though), and nothing comes close to Google Maps' "not the best, but delivers alright UX across all these features" approach.
  - jraph 1y ago
    Oh, ok, makes sense! Yeah, getting a nice bike route on OrganicMaps indeed involves some manual app convincing when an obvious bike route exists, I had the exact same thing last week, I agree this could be improved especially given the data is already present in OSM.
    - david-gpu 1y ago
      Inflexible routing is the reason I'm not using an Organic maps derivative. On OSMAnd I have tweaked the routing algorithm to my taste and it's hard to beat. There is often construction or other temporary issues, so having on-the-fly rerouting that I can trust is key.
mongol 1y ago
For Android, I have used Locus Maps for many years. It has a somewhat confusing, but very powerful, interface. And I feel the team behind it is committed and engaged. Very worthwhile to try if you haven't.
yread 1y ago
> I am trying to switch to Mapy.com (Mapy.cz before), it's a surprisingly user friendly app, however, not sure how they are going to monetize soon They now sell premium. Presumably some features (offline maps? or offline navigation? suggest a hike?) will be locked behind premium :-/ They do have great UX though
onnimonni 1y ago
Wow, thanks for mentioning https://streetcomplete.app https://streetcomplete.app! This looks very intuitive to use for edits on openstreetmaps. Would someone here know a similiar tool for iOS or MacOS? Or any recommendations to edit roads. We are currently driving with a 4.5 tonne motorhome in Europe and the road weight and height limits are usually marked properly in osmand+ but when they are not we waste multiple hours rerouting in the alps and I would really want to help the next person in similar situation.
- kawsper 1y ago
  There’s been work put in to making this happen, but now EU have also given funding for it to making it Multiplatform: https://nlnet.nl/project/StreetComplete-multiplatform/ https://nlnet.nl/project/StreetComplete-multiplatform/
- jraph 1y ago
  Mentioning it just in case, but openstreetmap.org's web editor (iD) is a good start on Desktop. There's also EveryDoor [1] which is very nice to edit OSM and they do seem to have an iOS version. Depending on what you want to edit, it can be very handy. I have not tried the numerous other, more advanced options [2]. [1] https://every-door.app/ https://every-door.app/ [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editors https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editors
- ihatehn 1y ago
  Go Map, or just make bookmarks in OsmAnd and go back later
  - onnimonni 1y ago
    "Go Map!!" was indeed pretty easy to use. Thanks!
    - K2h 1y ago
      Another vote for Go Map!! Developer is ex Microsoft sysinternals guy. I have been a beta tester for years. Love the app for quick edits in the field. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Go_Map https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Go_Map!! https://apps.apple.com/us/app/go-map/id592990211 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/go-map/id592990211
karussell 1y ago
OSMAnd and OrganicMaps both have the limitation (and big advantage) of functioning offline by default. The routing will be much more powerful (with alternatives on by default) and faster if you enable an online routing service. For OSMAnd this is possible with e.g. GraphHopper: https://www.graphhopper.com/blog/2024/02/27/osmand-with-graphhopper-navigation/ https://www.graphhopper.com/blog/2024/02/27/osmand-with-grap... The same is true for address search. If you have an online address search like photon the search can be more user friendly. We've put together photon and GraphHopper routing on GraphHopper Maps: https://graphhopper.com/maps/ https://graphhopper.com/maps/ which you could self-host on your own (i.e. also use offline): https://github.com/karussell/local-maps https://github.com/karussell/local-maps GraphHopper Maps is also available on fdroid store or you can install the website as PWA in iOS. Disclaimer: I'm a co-founder of GraphHopper.
- _fat_santa 1y ago
  > (and big advantage) of functioning offline by default. I don't know about others but that's the main reason I use it. My day to day mapping app is still Google Maps but I always keep a copy of Organic Maps with downloaded maps of wherever I'm going as a backup. While I do not use it often, it's gotten me out of a couple of sticky situations while camping and roadtripping. Organic Maps (and other offline mapping providers) are far from perfect and the UX is just not the same as it is on Google Maps for example. But with it being a backup app, if I need to open it I don't really care about the limitations, I just need an offline map.
  - gorfian_robot 1y ago
    same same. and I often find Organic Maps has hiking trails etc fairly well indicated where Google does not (even if I have cell service)
    - PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago
      I think this is less Organic vs Google than OpenStreetMap's data set vs Google's. I don't know why Google does so much worse with trails than OSM, but it really does.
agile-gift0262 1y ago
Another alternative to mapy.com you could try is Here WeGo. I prefer it to any other Google Maps alternative I have tried. And there are some things, like the car navigation, that I prefer on it over Google Maps. I don't find their privacy policy creepy, and the most creepy parts are opt-in and the toggle clearly explains what you'd be opting into and what feature you are missing out on by not opting in. Mapy's privacy policy is less creepy than Here's in some aspects, but some of the creepiness that's opt-in in Here, like location data sharing for traffic, it's on with no opting-out on Mapy. I'd prefer an open-source alternative, but as you said, there isn't any that currently fits my needs.
- benrutter 1y ago
  Plus one for everything you said! I've been using WeGo in place of Google maps for a good few months and it's been an easy drop in swap without any compromises for me. It would be immense for an open source project to exist, but I'll happily settle for a non-google one.
mnmalst 1y ago
I started using osmand a lot more lately while biking and I agree route calculation on the phone (hi Pixel 4a :) ) are super slow but for that reason you can configure alternative (online) routing engines in the settings https://osmand.net/docs/user/navigation/routing/online-routing/ https://osmand.net/docs/user/navigation/routing/online-routi.... I use https://openrouteservice.org/ https://openrouteservice.org/ which generates long routes in seconds and works great in general.
PufPufPuf 1y ago
I'm Czech, and a long time user of Mapy.cz / Mapy.com. Monetization of Mapy.com has been a question for some time. It's part of the Seznam conglomerate, which makes most of its money through various news sites (including a TV channel) and an ad platform. Other "side projects" of Seznam, like their e-mail service, serve as drivers for their homepage and stay completely free. Mapy.cz contained affiliate Booking.com links for some time, but recently they added a paid subscription and moved the ability to download offline maps for more than two countries at a time behind a paywall. It seems that they are just now trying to figure out a more sustainable way to monetize, and everyone is hoping they won't destroy the great app in the process.
- throw738384 1y ago
  Mapy.cz was profitable before, they have practical monopoly on Czech market due shop data (opening hours, menus, user reviews). Recent monetization is just squeeze. Btw hiking data are a bit obsolete for other countries. They have fork from OSM that is a few years behind.
  - PufPufPuf 1y ago
    That's not my experience at all, for shops and restaurants (opening hours, menus, photos, ratings) I always need to use Google Maps. And even then, a "practical monopoly" does not mean anything unless you monetize it...
rafram 1y ago
I'm not that worried about Mapy.cz/.com becoming useless unless you pay, to be honest. (Maybe they'll make me look foolish for that.) The developer is Seznam, which is kind of like the Czech homegrown equivalent of Google/Craigslist/Zillow. I assume they monetize in pretty much the same way: ads, enterprise, API fees.
- aembleton 1y ago
  They're monetising by requiring payment to download maps for more than one country at a time.
pbsurf 1y ago
I'm working on https://github.com/styluslabs/maps/ https://github.com/styluslabs/maps/ including a new 3D map engine (based on Tangram-ES) and JS plugin support, so while there is no offline routing yet, support for additional online routing services can be added by users.
JCattheATM 1y ago
I've been using a do-googled LineagoOS fan for the last few months with Organic maps, and not only do I find it super user friendly, I actively like it more than Google Maps. It works offline so much better.
onnimonni 1y ago
Slightly off topic but I would really want to see DuckDB based alternative of https://pgrouting.org https://pgrouting.org. It's so easy to embed duckdb anywhere. Current smartphones already have enough CPU juice to handle almost anything and duckdb can query and cache geoparquet files eg from the Overture maps.
will-bradley 1y ago
There's a lot of discussion about bicycle routing improvements, as well as displaying alternate routes. I expect these conversations to be continued in CoMaps, so your input is valued and welcome there! https://github.com/organicmaps/organicmaps/issues/9748 https://github.com/organicmaps/organicmaps/issues/9748

by kmarc 1y ago

saubeidl 1y ago

What do you think is the biggest UX issue with maps.me/organic maps/comaps/whatever?

kjrfghslkdjfl 1y ago
[dead]
kmarc 1y ago
The biggest for me is definitely the lack of public transportation. This is something even gnome-maps support. Global search (eg. things that are not downloaded yet) only works for some bigger entities, that are part of the world map (although I understand that this would need some server-side support). Not having a satellite map is also a bummer. Point-to-point navigation at places where you already downloaded maps is alright (same with osmand), but for exploration, or public trasnport, I would need to use moovit, mapy, osmand (wikipedia overlay is awesome), or google maps.
- saubeidl 1y ago
  Oh that's a great callout. I did some quick research and it appears Gnome's public transport feature is powered by https://transitous.org/ https://transitous.org/ - I wonder how much work it would be to add this to Organic Maps?
  - maelito 1y ago
    Impossible in the medium term, unless Organic goes online.
    - johannes1234321 1y ago
      There is a lot one could do offline. Highlight close by stations, have overlays/styles for transport focus (they got an overlay for "Subway", which in some areas includes commuter trains but not for bus/tram/light rail/...) And in theory one could add bundles of data based on GTFS data which many transport organisations these days publish and do routing at least based on schedule times.
      - maelito 1y ago
        Yes, but that would be miles behind G/A maps, on top of being hard to implement. E.g. Motis needs walk routing data that weights hundred of gigas.
        johannes1234321 1y ago
        Question is what it's for. A proper transport layer on the map would be valuable to me. Even without timetable data. That's even in relations on openstreetmap already. Next improvement might be to highlight lines based on frequency of service. Still possible to precalculate with little need on device. Routing ain't easy. That's true.
        will-bradley 1y ago
        We'd love to have your input for improved transit in CoMaps! I agree it's an important priority. Last GSoC there was a project for ingesting GTFS feeds against OSM data, since local agencies are often much better about their details than OSM is, but as a student project it was slow and limited in scope.
shafyy 1y ago
Not an UX thing, but I find myself going back to Google Maps to find restaurants, reviews and reliable opening hours all the time. Neither Apple Maps nor Organic Maps offers the same level of quality (not to say that Google Maps reviews can be problematic in themselves).
- kmarc 1y ago
  The OsmAnd guys tried launching OpenPlaceReviews. https://2019.stateofthemap.org/sessions/LBGPCD/ https://2019.stateofthemap.org/sessions/LBGPCD/ Unfortunately it didn't take off, was discountinued in 2023. https://github.com/OpenPlaceReviews https://github.com/OpenPlaceReviews
  - notpushkin 1y ago
    Really sad, but understandable. Everybody’s going to Google because it’s where the most reviews are... because everybody’s going to Google.
- stevage 1y ago
  It's almost impossible for anything to compete with Google Maps on business information because they have built such a vast commercial ecosystem around it with advertising, Maps users etc.
- evantbyrne 1y ago
  And at least back when I tried it a long time ago, it wouldn't pull in updates from OSM in a timely manner. Like I updated something in OSM and a month later it still wasn't available in organic maps. Maybe it is better now?
ravenstine 1y ago
Search. I've wanted to like Organic Maps, but the search function is the absolute pits and forces me to still use Google Maps. Without good search, there's next to no point in me using it.

maelito 1y ago

> try to search for something, mistype only one letter Photon is quite good at this, coming with english/french/german plug-and-play. But it's online, so very hard to implement on each user's phone, which is the limitation of Organic and Osmand. Once you're using Photon or an equivalent project, you need to do a lot more to provide Google's experience : - itinerary suggestions like "from london to winchester" - coordinates detection - handle abbreviations like blvd, in all the languages (Nominatim does it better than Photon, from what I know) - handle category search, e.g. typing "coffee in Marais" -> a full-text-search won't work taking only the features' name, you need to do some semantic separation of terms - etc. > Alternative path for your bike route? Forget about it. Same pb : offline routing is harder. BRouter is excellent, with lots of alternatives, but online (can be installed on OSMand but it's nerdy). Disclaimer : I'm working on https://cartes.app https://cartes.app, a Web map app. We're using Photon and Brouter, but lots need to be done, including i18n to english, soon I hope !

kmarc 1y ago
this looks promising, thanks for sharing :-)

maelito 1y ago

> If OsmAnd got a new rendering engine (no, not that "3D" sluggish thing it has for a couple years now), like streetcomplete has (or the Strava-built-in mapbox renderer), it would be possibly the best. What "3D sluggish thing" are talking about ? Streetcomplete, like most OSM vector 3D maps use MapLibre, for a few months now https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/pull/5693 https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/pull/5693 Edit : sorry, I read Organic. Indeed OSMand is sluggish for me as well. I don't know why they went for something other than MapLibre. It's probably in-house and entangled in their code :/

kmarc 1y ago
Yes :-) Streetcomplete is amazing; I understand it provides less polygons to render but it does an absolutely amazing job at it, even when there are thousands of quests.
- maelito 1y ago
  Yes, zooming in is so fast. I'd love to have this experience on mobile Web, we're not quite there yet. I suppose WebGPU is needed ?
- ihatehn 1y ago
  It also uses online tiles afaik.
palata 1y ago
> I don't know why they went for something other than MapLibre. OSMAnd existed looong before MapLibre :-).
- maelito 1y ago
  Sorry, what I wanted to say is I don't know why they stick with their stack, instead of doing like Streetcomplete.
  - palata 1y ago

medfield 1y ago

Agreed. I use organic maps for hiking, because its just simple offline trail mapping. I want a mapping program in my car to easily be offline, have map overlays that are easy to read like more pronounced lane/route arrows and can re route if there is a road shut down or a backup on the expressway and I go to get off. But my biggest gripe with using organic maps with driving is its search function. I couldnt care if it doesnt have all the online social features like google maps and come up with the police/safety warnings and restaurant ratings. I just want its seach to actually find the place I want to go. Most of the time I try and avoid using google maps, but then I go back and try organic maps. Notice it doesnt have where i want to go listed in its search, so i google the address to plug in. I can enter in the exact address and it wont find it and then go back to google maps.

contrapunctus 1y ago
Are you sure the address actually exists on OpenStreetMap? You can add it with StreetComplete (Android) or Go Map (iOS).
jacekm 1y ago
> map overlays that are easy to read like more pronounced lane/route arrows Try Magic Earth https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.generalmagic.magicearth https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.generalmag...
palata 1y ago
> Notice it doesnt have where i want to go listed in its search I live in an area where OSM is really good with that (just because people contributed the data). If your area is less complete, it feels like it's a good opportunity to contribute! There are many apps that will help you contribute to the map, or you can do it directly from the website: https://www.openstreetmap.org https://www.openstreetmap.org. It doesn't mean you need to spend tons of time on it: I contribute data a few times a year. It's better than nothing :-).
- johannes1234321 1y ago
  It's not only about being tagged in Openstreetmap, it's about the search algorithm finding the relevant entry from ambiguous entry. Dealing with cases where things are spelled slightly differently (abbreviations etc.) or finding the relevant entry when common terms are used in names or search just by category.

jraph 1y ago

> Alternative path for your bike route? Forget about it. What do you mean? It's possible to add intermediate stops to shape your route. Or do you mean something else? With you on the search not being forgiving enough.

kmarc 1y ago
Other map apps offer different routes between two points, showing the trade-off in time. Organic Maps calculates one route, and it doesn't matter if it's through a deadly car-congested highway. My example is going from Zürich West to Downtown. Here is my experience: * Organic maps: calculates fast, although through a street with a lot of traffic, no alternatives offered. * OsmAnd: takes 5 seconds on a flagship phone to RENDER the current view. I try to avoid zoom and pan. What the hell. Calculating the navigation is either a couple seconds or a minute. The whole UX is totally broken, however, at least you can select to prefer byways / bicycle routes. * Mapy: fast rendering, fast pathfinding, alternatives offered, configurable to use bike paths. * Google Maps: totally random what happens, it's a combination of the above (I guess it tries to use live traffic data, too?) Now the funny thing is that there is an actual signaled bicycle path (which I prefer, since it avoids traffic), and OSM does have this data. None of the app would prefer that path, unfortunately (it's maybe 20 minutes instead of 18 minutes, but much safer). It feels like most of the apps are hyperfocused on one type of navigation / exploration / feature set (being offline is huge, though), and nothing comes close to Google Maps' "not the best, but delivers alright UX across all these features" approach.
- jraph 1y ago
  Oh, ok, makes sense! Yeah, getting a nice bike route on OrganicMaps indeed involves some manual app convincing when an obvious bike route exists, I had the exact same thing last week, I agree this could be improved especially given the data is already present in OSM.
  - david-gpu 1y ago
    Inflexible routing is the reason I'm not using an Organic maps derivative. On OSMAnd I have tweaked the routing algorithm to my taste and it's hard to beat. There is often construction or other temporary issues, so having on-the-fly rerouting that I can trust is key.

mongol 1y ago

For Android, I have used Locus Maps for many years. It has a somewhat confusing, but very powerful, interface. And I feel the team behind it is committed and engaged. Very worthwhile to try if you haven't.

yread 1y ago

> I am trying to switch to Mapy.com (Mapy.cz before), it's a surprisingly user friendly app, however, not sure how they are going to monetize soon They now sell premium. Presumably some features (offline maps? or offline navigation? suggest a hike?) will be locked behind premium :-/ They do have great UX though

onnimonni 1y ago

Wow, thanks for mentioning https://streetcomplete.app https://streetcomplete.app! This looks very intuitive to use for edits on openstreetmaps. Would someone here know a similiar tool for iOS or MacOS? Or any recommendations to edit roads. We are currently driving with a 4.5 tonne motorhome in Europe and the road weight and height limits are usually marked properly in osmand+ but when they are not we waste multiple hours rerouting in the alps and I would really want to help the next person in similar situation.

kawsper 1y ago
There’s been work put in to making this happen, but now EU have also given funding for it to making it Multiplatform: https://nlnet.nl/project/StreetComplete-multiplatform/ https://nlnet.nl/project/StreetComplete-multiplatform/
jraph 1y ago
Mentioning it just in case, but openstreetmap.org's web editor (iD) is a good start on Desktop. There's also EveryDoor [1] which is very nice to edit OSM and they do seem to have an iOS version. Depending on what you want to edit, it can be very handy. I have not tried the numerous other, more advanced options [2]. [1] https://every-door.app/ https://every-door.app/ [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editors https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Editors
ihatehn 1y ago
Go Map, or just make bookmarks in OsmAnd and go back later
- onnimonni 1y ago
  "Go Map!!" was indeed pretty easy to use. Thanks!
  - K2h 1y ago
    Another vote for Go Map!! Developer is ex Microsoft sysinternals guy. I have been a beta tester for years. Love the app for quick edits in the field. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Go_Map https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Go_Map!! https://apps.apple.com/us/app/go-map/id592990211 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/go-map/id592990211

karussell 1y ago

OSMAnd and OrganicMaps both have the limitation (and big advantage) of functioning offline by default. The routing will be much more powerful (with alternatives on by default) and faster if you enable an online routing service. For OSMAnd this is possible with e.g. GraphHopper: https://www.graphhopper.com/blog/2024/02/27/osmand-with-graphhopper-navigation/ https://www.graphhopper.com/blog/2024/02/27/osmand-with-grap... The same is true for address search. If you have an online address search like photon the search can be more user friendly. We've put together photon and GraphHopper routing on GraphHopper Maps: https://graphhopper.com/maps/ https://graphhopper.com/maps/ which you could self-host on your own (i.e. also use offline): https://github.com/karussell/local-maps https://github.com/karussell/local-maps GraphHopper Maps is also available on fdroid store or you can install the website as PWA in iOS. Disclaimer: I'm a co-founder of GraphHopper.

_fat_santa 1y ago
> (and big advantage) of functioning offline by default. I don't know about others but that's the main reason I use it. My day to day mapping app is still Google Maps but I always keep a copy of Organic Maps with downloaded maps of wherever I'm going as a backup. While I do not use it often, it's gotten me out of a couple of sticky situations while camping and roadtripping. Organic Maps (and other offline mapping providers) are far from perfect and the UX is just not the same as it is on Google Maps for example. But with it being a backup app, if I need to open it I don't really care about the limitations, I just need an offline map.
- gorfian_robot 1y ago
  same same. and I often find Organic Maps has hiking trails etc fairly well indicated where Google does not (even if I have cell service)
  - PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago
    I think this is less Organic vs Google than OpenStreetMap's data set vs Google's. I don't know why Google does so much worse with trails than OSM, but it really does.

agile-gift0262 1y ago

Another alternative to mapy.com you could try is Here WeGo. I prefer it to any other Google Maps alternative I have tried. And there are some things, like the car navigation, that I prefer on it over Google Maps. I don't find their privacy policy creepy, and the most creepy parts are opt-in and the toggle clearly explains what you'd be opting into and what feature you are missing out on by not opting in. Mapy's privacy policy is less creepy than Here's in some aspects, but some of the creepiness that's opt-in in Here, like location data sharing for traffic, it's on with no opting-out on Mapy. I'd prefer an open-source alternative, but as you said, there isn't any that currently fits my needs.

benrutter 1y ago
Plus one for everything you said! I've been using WeGo in place of Google maps for a good few months and it's been an easy drop in swap without any compromises for me. It would be immense for an open source project to exist, but I'll happily settle for a non-google one.

mnmalst 1y ago

I started using osmand a lot more lately while biking and I agree route calculation on the phone (hi Pixel 4a :) ) are super slow but for that reason you can configure alternative (online) routing engines in the settings https://osmand.net/docs/user/navigation/routing/online-routing/ https://osmand.net/docs/user/navigation/routing/online-routi.... I use https://openrouteservice.org/ https://openrouteservice.org/ which generates long routes in seconds and works great in general.

PufPufPuf 1y ago

I'm Czech, and a long time user of Mapy.cz / Mapy.com. Monetization of Mapy.com has been a question for some time. It's part of the Seznam conglomerate, which makes most of its money through various news sites (including a TV channel) and an ad platform. Other "side projects" of Seznam, like their e-mail service, serve as drivers for their homepage and stay completely free. Mapy.cz contained affiliate Booking.com links for some time, but recently they added a paid subscription and moved the ability to download offline maps for more than two countries at a time behind a paywall. It seems that they are just now trying to figure out a more sustainable way to monetize, and everyone is hoping they won't destroy the great app in the process.

throw738384 1y ago
Mapy.cz was profitable before, they have practical monopoly on Czech market due shop data (opening hours, menus, user reviews). Recent monetization is just squeeze. Btw hiking data are a bit obsolete for other countries. They have fork from OSM that is a few years behind.
- PufPufPuf 1y ago
  That's not my experience at all, for shops and restaurants (opening hours, menus, photos, ratings) I always need to use Google Maps. And even then, a "practical monopoly" does not mean anything unless you monetize it...

rafram 1y ago

I'm not that worried about Mapy.cz/.com becoming useless unless you pay, to be honest. (Maybe they'll make me look foolish for that.) The developer is Seznam, which is kind of like the Czech homegrown equivalent of Google/Craigslist/Zillow. I assume they monetize in pretty much the same way: ads, enterprise, API fees.

aembleton 1y ago
They're monetising by requiring payment to download maps for more than one country at a time.

pbsurf 1y ago

I'm working on https://github.com/styluslabs/maps/ https://github.com/styluslabs/maps/ including a new 3D map engine (based on Tangram-ES) and JS plugin support, so while there is no offline routing yet, support for additional online routing services can be added by users.

JCattheATM 1y ago

I've been using a do-googled LineagoOS fan for the last few months with Organic maps, and not only do I find it super user friendly, I actively like it more than Google Maps. It works offline so much better.

onnimonni 1y ago

Slightly off topic but I would really want to see DuckDB based alternative of https://pgrouting.org https://pgrouting.org. It's so easy to embed duckdb anywhere. Current smartphones already have enough CPU juice to handle almost anything and duckdb can query and cache geoparquet files eg from the Overture maps.

will-bradley 1y ago

There's a lot of discussion about bicycle routing improvements, as well as displaying alternate routes. I expect these conversations to be continued in CoMaps, so your input is valued and welcome there! https://github.com/organicmaps/organicmaps/issues/9748 https://github.com/organicmaps/organicmaps/issues/9748