4 ms·

Many of the trades you listed require licenses, apprenticeships, or trade schools. Usually high schools make you choose between a college prep track or vo-tech

Many of the trades you listed require licenses, apprenticeships, or trade schools. Usually high schools make you choose between a college prep track or vo-tech track, so you can't do both. Also, those the tools for those trades (if going beyond a handyman level) are a significant capital investment.

vermilingua 1y ago
That’s only an obstacle if one believes education should be finished by 22-23 years old. Doing another few years of formal education isn’t a huge impediment and is probably pretty beneficial before even considering GP’s main point.
- giantg2 1y ago
  In the long run it's detrimental. The longer you delay earnings, the less time you have for it to compound.
  - K0balt 1y ago
    If earnings are the main point of your life, that makes perfect sense.
    - strken 1y ago
      I bet that a substantial majority of people's long term goals involve money to some extent. Want to live in a van and surf all day? You do actually need money for that, particularly if you want to do it indefinitely.
      - K0balt 1y ago
        Sure, resource potential is important. But putting all of your eggs in one basket can push you into a corner, especially in the sense of -feeling- cornered. Options, even if they exist primarily in theory, are a force multiplier. For example; If you have a “good” job, but it is trending toward a flat trajectory, and you have a set of skills that requires a complex set of circumstances to be employed, it may be too risky to move to a new location simply because the downside is so severe. It can be a 1:4 bet paying 10:1 odds, a bet you definitely should take, but if losing means your family doesn’t eat, you can’t take the risk. If you know you can find a way to get by even with day labor if things go badly until you can stabilize your situation, you can take those beneficial risks. It’s a matter of being prepared to roll with the inevitable punches, and being able to make decisions based on the knowledge of that readiness. Being less fragile, even antifragile.
    - giantg2 1y ago
      Earnings aren't the main point, but they're a necessary point for everything else that does matter.
      - K0balt 1y ago
        Sure, and optimizing earning potential along with tactical flexibility is arguably the best way to maximize that potential. Having a trade as a backup skill gives you tactical maneuverability that allows you to be a more effective negotiator and to take beneficial risks. Negotiating power alone is worth any costs.
delichon 1y ago
> So carpentry, plumbing, electrician, mechanic, basically anything you can do that does not require the permission of an employer, just you and the person that needs the job done, and results in the satisfaction of some basic human need. I've hired all of these trades for my basic needs and I've never seen their licenses. They don't need no stinking license to get lots of residential work around here, just word of mouth that they are competent.
- giantg2 1y ago
  Just because you don't see fhwm, doesn't mean they don't have them or need them. I would bet your state/county requires electricians to have a license, and your mechanic is likely ASE certified.
  - delichon 1y ago
    That's city talk. In this rural area we hire whoever has the know how and feel lucky to get them. I know for a fact that the current mechanic I use (the best I've ever had) is a farmer trying to make ends meet with no formal training. My electrician had a license as a lineman once but is now just supplementing his pension, unlicensed. Etc., etc. The guy who came out to install a generator is licensed, and he needed one for the inspection, but that's an exception not the rule. The claim was that all you need is the skill to make a living, and around here that's demonstrated daily. Sometimes they don't even have the tools and use mine. Frequently they require cash, and that's standard procedure here.
    - K0balt 1y ago
      While I agree with the sentiment, population density tends to make regularization more important. In a smaller community, social proofs are highly effective. Less so as people become more commodified.
    - ses1984 1y ago
      Go ahead and hire someone without a license, who cares, but if your livelihood depends on that trade, it’s probably a good idea to get a license, when the alternative is fines or worse.
K0balt 1y ago
Yeah, it would be impractical to do them all lol, but you can get set up either by high school graduation or within two years afterward. So you go to college , if desired, at 19 or 20. As far as the “track” available in high school, I’ve found it trivial to basically ignore it. You can pick and choose, but you may have to demonstrate ability to skip prerequisites, so that means independent study -a critical skill anyway. Also, summer school or community college in the summer can move a student ahead significantly. Having raised 5 kids under this pattern it hasn’t been problematic or expensive. If the plan is to go to a prestigious university, you will need to do some extra academics or work yourself into a university program to make it obvious that going to a trade school doesn’t define your potential, usually completing a year of community college or participating as a research assistant etc by high school graduation is sufficient. As far as tools cost, being a mechanic is the pricey one, with basic set of tools around $3000 these days because of the technology component. But the other trades are not so bad. If you don’t try to buy all new and vanity brands, you can get set up around $1000. Used tools are generally nearly as good as new ones. If you need advanced tools they are nearly universally available for rent, and often the first time you need to rent a tool, the job you do will pay for you to buy one for next time. I think most people overvalue the dominant paradigm and pattern copying. It’s fine (even desirable) not to look like the usual applicant as long as your lumps are interesting or signal value to an institution.
- fn-mote 1y ago
  If you are comparing to going to college $3000 startup cost is a joke.
  - K0balt 1y ago
    Yeah, the costs just aren’t that high. I’d say that adding a trade to my children’s accomplishments probably in total added about 3-5k to the cost of their education. In some cases, the educational component of the trade actually earned them money in the process. In the grand scheme of things, the cost is negligible.
  - dghlsakjg 1y ago
    I have no idea where this guy got $3k as a startup cost. Most mechanics pay more than that just for the mechanic's toolbox without any tools in it. $10-15k is a more realistic number for an auto mechanic, and many of them have $50k+ into their tools.

vermilingua 1y ago

That’s only an obstacle if one believes education should be finished by 22-23 years old. Doing another few years of formal education isn’t a huge impediment and is probably pretty beneficial before even considering GP’s main point.

giantg2 1y ago
In the long run it's detrimental. The longer you delay earnings, the less time you have for it to compound.
- K0balt 1y ago
  If earnings are the main point of your life, that makes perfect sense.
  - strken 1y ago
    I bet that a substantial majority of people's long term goals involve money to some extent. Want to live in a van and surf all day? You do actually need money for that, particularly if you want to do it indefinitely.
    - K0balt 1y ago
      Sure, resource potential is important. But putting all of your eggs in one basket can push you into a corner, especially in the sense of -feeling- cornered. Options, even if they exist primarily in theory, are a force multiplier. For example; If you have a “good” job, but it is trending toward a flat trajectory, and you have a set of skills that requires a complex set of circumstances to be employed, it may be too risky to move to a new location simply because the downside is so severe. It can be a 1:4 bet paying 10:1 odds, a bet you definitely should take, but if losing means your family doesn’t eat, you can’t take the risk. If you know you can find a way to get by even with day labor if things go badly until you can stabilize your situation, you can take those beneficial risks. It’s a matter of being prepared to roll with the inevitable punches, and being able to make decisions based on the knowledge of that readiness. Being less fragile, even antifragile.
  - giantg2 1y ago
    Earnings aren't the main point, but they're a necessary point for everything else that does matter.
    - K0balt 1y ago
      Sure, and optimizing earning potential along with tactical flexibility is arguably the best way to maximize that potential. Having a trade as a backup skill gives you tactical maneuverability that allows you to be a more effective negotiator and to take beneficial risks. Negotiating power alone is worth any costs.

delichon 1y ago

> So carpentry, plumbing, electrician, mechanic, basically anything you can do that does not require the permission of an employer, just you and the person that needs the job done, and results in the satisfaction of some basic human need. I've hired all of these trades for my basic needs and I've never seen their licenses. They don't need no stinking license to get lots of residential work around here, just word of mouth that they are competent.

giantg2 1y ago
Just because you don't see fhwm, doesn't mean they don't have them or need them. I would bet your state/county requires electricians to have a license, and your mechanic is likely ASE certified.
- delichon 1y ago
  That's city talk. In this rural area we hire whoever has the know how and feel lucky to get them. I know for a fact that the current mechanic I use (the best I've ever had) is a farmer trying to make ends meet with no formal training. My electrician had a license as a lineman once but is now just supplementing his pension, unlicensed. Etc., etc. The guy who came out to install a generator is licensed, and he needed one for the inspection, but that's an exception not the rule. The claim was that all you need is the skill to make a living, and around here that's demonstrated daily. Sometimes they don't even have the tools and use mine. Frequently they require cash, and that's standard procedure here.
  - K0balt 1y ago
    While I agree with the sentiment, population density tends to make regularization more important. In a smaller community, social proofs are highly effective. Less so as people become more commodified.
  - ses1984 1y ago
    Go ahead and hire someone without a license, who cares, but if your livelihood depends on that trade, it’s probably a good idea to get a license, when the alternative is fines or worse.

K0balt 1y ago

Yeah, it would be impractical to do them all lol, but you can get set up either by high school graduation or within two years afterward. So you go to college , if desired, at 19 or 20. As far as the “track” available in high school, I’ve found it trivial to basically ignore it. You can pick and choose, but you may have to demonstrate ability to skip prerequisites, so that means independent study -a critical skill anyway. Also, summer school or community college in the summer can move a student ahead significantly. Having raised 5 kids under this pattern it hasn’t been problematic or expensive. If the plan is to go to a prestigious university, you will need to do some extra academics or work yourself into a university program to make it obvious that going to a trade school doesn’t define your potential, usually completing a year of community college or participating as a research assistant etc by high school graduation is sufficient. As far as tools cost, being a mechanic is the pricey one, with basic set of tools around $3000 these days because of the technology component. But the other trades are not so bad. If you don’t try to buy all new and vanity brands, you can get set up around $1000. Used tools are generally nearly as good as new ones. If you need advanced tools they are nearly universally available for rent, and often the first time you need to rent a tool, the job you do will pay for you to buy one for next time. I think most people overvalue the dominant paradigm and pattern copying. It’s fine (even desirable) not to look like the usual applicant as long as your lumps are interesting or signal value to an institution.

fn-mote 1y ago
If you are comparing to going to college $3000 startup cost is a joke.
- K0balt 1y ago
  Yeah, the costs just aren’t that high. I’d say that adding a trade to my children’s accomplishments probably in total added about 3-5k to the cost of their education. In some cases, the educational component of the trade actually earned them money in the process. In the grand scheme of things, the cost is negligible.
- dghlsakjg 1y ago
  I have no idea where this guy got $3k as a startup cost. Most mechanics pay more than that just for the mechanic's toolbox without any tools in it. $10-15k is a more realistic number for an auto mechanic, and many of them have $50k+ into their tools.