4 ms·

Those are not safety addons, those are surveillance ones

pbasista 1y ago
Please do not intentionally conflate the two concepts. Connectivity is one thing. Using connectivity for surveillance is another. If a car is connected to the internet, it does not automatically mean that it is also collecting car data and sending it somewhere.
- the8472 1y ago
  Is the modem always on or does it only get activated on an accident? If it's the former then cell towers log your location.
  - pbasista 1y ago
    Yes, that is correct. But it is a different concept. The mobile network operators do that. Not the car. The car does not even have any way to stop that apart from going offline.
    - the8472 1y ago
      First of all, you didn't directly answer my question, it wasn't a yes/no question. I don't know how these systems work. If they're almost always offline it would be a lot less concerning. Secondly, the government makes both regulations (cell tower data retention, emergency calling). So in combination the government regulated user tracking. Where exactly it happens isn't really that important. Once the data is being collected it'll end up being used. Usually it starts with major crimes and anonymized statistics, once the automated infrastructure has been created it'll be abused either illegally by police overreach or legally by a tough-on-X government changing the rules. It's not like this is some novel pattern...
oblio 1y ago
It's surveillance if the car manufacturer wants to use it for that.
- graemep 1y ago
  Which they inevitably will.
- stronglikedan 1y ago
  Really, it's only surveillance, thinly veiled as safety. The reality is that my car is no safer with an LTE modem. Zilch. Zero. It's purely surveillance, if you don't fall for the marketing. In fact, I'm going to find mine and faraday that shit this weekend.
ponector 1y ago
Let me guess: you are afraid of the surveillance, use only cash for payment, pager for connectivity and have no permanent address? It's safer and convenient to have a connected car. I like it that way. When you can open your car app and check the location where it is parked, amount of gas or request ventilation/ac.
- graemep 1y ago
  That is a blatant reductio ad absurdum. People should have the right to reasonable privacy without being homeless and off grid. I am happy to share my address and phone number etc. but not to be tracked wherever I go or have everything I do on my computer or within my home monitored. These are different things.

Please do not intentionally conflate the two concepts. Connectivity is one thing. Using connectivity for surveillance is another. If a car is connected to the internet, it does not automatically mean that it is also collecting car data and sending it somewhere.

the8472 1y ago
Is the modem always on or does it only get activated on an accident? If it's the former then cell towers log your location.
- pbasista 1y ago
  Yes, that is correct. But it is a different concept. The mobile network operators do that. Not the car. The car does not even have any way to stop that apart from going offline.
  - the8472 1y ago
    First of all, you didn't directly answer my question, it wasn't a yes/no question. I don't know how these systems work. If they're almost always offline it would be a lot less concerning. Secondly, the government makes both regulations (cell tower data retention, emergency calling). So in combination the government regulated user tracking. Where exactly it happens isn't really that important. Once the data is being collected it'll end up being used. Usually it starts with major crimes and anonymized statistics, once the automated infrastructure has been created it'll be abused either illegally by police overreach or legally by a tough-on-X government changing the rules. It's not like this is some novel pattern...

oblio 1y ago

It's surveillance if the car manufacturer wants to use it for that.

graemep 1y ago
Which they inevitably will.
stronglikedan 1y ago
Really, it's only surveillance, thinly veiled as safety. The reality is that my car is no safer with an LTE modem. Zilch. Zero. It's purely surveillance, if you don't fall for the marketing. In fact, I'm going to find mine and faraday that shit this weekend.

ponector 1y ago

Let me guess: you are afraid of the surveillance, use only cash for payment, pager for connectivity and have no permanent address? It's safer and convenient to have a connected car. I like it that way. When you can open your car app and check the location where it is parked, amount of gas or request ventilation/ac.

graemep 1y ago
That is a blatant reductio ad absurdum. People should have the right to reasonable privacy without being homeless and off grid. I am happy to share my address and phone number etc. but not to be tracked wherever I go or have everything I do on my computer or within my home monitored. These are different things.