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Prehistoric Human Brain Found Pickled in Bog

84 points by joeyespo 14y ago

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
maeon3 14y ago
Do we have any dna samples of humans from 2500 years ago? I'd like to see What has changed genetically since then.
- arethuza 14y ago
  Mitochondrial DNA has been extracted from samples found in the UK which are up to 12,000 years old: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_Man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_Man
- dhughes 14y ago
  There are DNA samples from 5,300 years ago Otzi the Iceman from the Italian/Swiss border, the bogman is half his age. It would be fun to compare the two. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi_the_Iceman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi_the_Iceman
thinkingisfun 14y ago
Little hint for the next time.. "bog" is british slang for "toilet". At first I read "blog", then "toilet", and by the time I got to the article I was already in quite the silly mood, which is inappropriate for science.
- sdfjkl 14y ago
  bog |bɒg| noun 1 an area of wet muddy ground that is too soft to support a heavy body: a peat bog | figurative : a bog of legal complications | [ mass noun ] : the island is a wilderness of bog and loch. • Ecology wetland with acid peaty soil, typically dominated by peat moss. Compare with fen1. 2 (the bog) Brit. informal the toilet.
  - thinkingisfun 14y ago
    I didn't mean to imply it means ONLY toilet, so I, uhm, thanks, but I knew that.
ballooney 14y ago
I'm not sure 2600 years old is particularly 'prehistoric' is it? I appreciate I might just be being English ('in america a 100 years is a long time and in england 100 miles is a long way' etc) but I mean that's not far off being contemporary with Plato and about contemporary with Parmenides. Prehistoric in the UK, in my anecdotal experience, is more like >=5000 years old (for example Stone Henge falls squarely into being 'prehistoric'.) And I'm sure the Mesopotamians felt pretty old by then anyway. Any historian HNers know more about if there are any culturally specific definitions of prehistory?
- mikegirouard 14y ago
  I was about to comment on the same thing. I thought the title was pretty misleading myself.
- dbaupp 14y ago
  Wikipedia suggests that the early parts of the Iron Age[0] are considered prehistory[1], and this period ended around 2500 years ago in Persia, and as late as 1700 years ago in Europe (earliest on the Mediterranean and latest in Northern Europe). [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory
  - arethuza 14y ago
    Wikipedia also suggests that "History" is related to historical records: "Events of the past prior to written record are considered prehistory." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History That seems a pretty sensible distinction between history and prehistory and the historical records in the UK doesn't go back that far - is there much before Roman times?
    - ballooney 14y ago
      > the historical records in the UK doesn't go back that far - is there much before Roman times? A bit - the Celtic period went from about 600BC to the Roman invasion, for example, and has left us lots of interesting art and metalwork, which is worth visiting if you ever find yourself at the British Museum.
apaprocki 14y ago
If anyone didn't notice, this story is from Wed Apr 6, 2011. It is linked from a larger story about hundreds of warriors being found in the bog which was posted yesterday: http://news.discovery.com/history/army-danish-bog-120816.html http://news.discovery.com/history/army-danish-bog-120816.htm...
DanielBMarkham 14y ago
There has been some work saying that you can preserve life by immediately removing oxygen from the cells. The theory is that the damage from death happens as the oxygen levels slowly decay, causing all sorts of damage. If you could exsanguinate a body immediately, then preserve it in an oxygen-free environment, it might have a chance of being revived. (Wish there was more news about this idea) If that's true, perhaps future generations might view finding this guy's brain as a great tragedy, because we lost a chance to actually bring somebody back from the Iron Age. Admittedly this is highly-speculative BS. But hey, it's the internet.
- maxerickson 14y ago
  The environment in a bog is still pretty destructive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_body http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_body It just happens to preserve certain organic tissues fairly well compared to other environments.
- whileonebegin 14y ago
  I just want to add, the subject was hanged and decapitated. For what, we'll probably never know. But just think about that with regard to bringing him back to life.
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    I am not convinced the people who killed this guy were particularly cautious when applying capital punishment. But, again, nobody can be sure how good his lawyer was, since there is no written record of the criminal process that led to his execution in such... creative ways.
    - DanielBMarkham 14y ago
      Since it's Friday evening, a great book on creative executions is "The Executioner Always Chops Twice" -- fun and quick read. http://amzn.to/OnxaU7 http://amzn.to/OnxaU7
davidw 14y ago
Scientists described the brain as not dissimilar from one found pickled in a local pub.
lenkite 14y ago
This really isn't pre-history since there are Sumer tablets that are dated around 2500 BC. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Letter_Luenna_Louvre_AO4238.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Letter_Luenna_Louvre_AO423...

84 points by joeyespo 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

maeon3 14y ago

Do we have any dna samples of humans from 2500 years ago? I'd like to see What has changed genetically since then.

arethuza 14y ago
Mitochondrial DNA has been extracted from samples found in the UK which are up to 12,000 years old: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_Man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_Man
dhughes 14y ago
There are DNA samples from 5,300 years ago Otzi the Iceman from the Italian/Swiss border, the bogman is half his age. It would be fun to compare the two. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi_the_Iceman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi_the_Iceman

thinkingisfun 14y ago

Little hint for the next time.. "bog" is british slang for "toilet". At first I read "blog", then "toilet", and by the time I got to the article I was already in quite the silly mood, which is inappropriate for science.

sdfjkl 14y ago
bog |bɒg| noun 1 an area of wet muddy ground that is too soft to support a heavy body: a peat bog | figurative : a bog of legal complications | [ mass noun ] : the island is a wilderness of bog and loch. • Ecology wetland with acid peaty soil, typically dominated by peat moss. Compare with fen1. 2 (the bog) Brit. informal the toilet.
- thinkingisfun 14y ago
  I didn't mean to imply it means ONLY toilet, so I, uhm, thanks, but I knew that.

ballooney 14y ago

I'm not sure 2600 years old is particularly 'prehistoric' is it? I appreciate I might just be being English ('in america a 100 years is a long time and in england 100 miles is a long way' etc) but I mean that's not far off being contemporary with Plato and about contemporary with Parmenides. Prehistoric in the UK, in my anecdotal experience, is more like >=5000 years old (for example Stone Henge falls squarely into being 'prehistoric'.) And I'm sure the Mesopotamians felt pretty old by then anyway. Any historian HNers know more about if there are any culturally specific definitions of prehistory?

mikegirouard 14y ago
I was about to comment on the same thing. I thought the title was pretty misleading myself.
dbaupp 14y ago
Wikipedia suggests that the early parts of the Iron Age[0] are considered prehistory[1], and this period ended around 2500 years ago in Persia, and as late as 1700 years ago in Europe (earliest on the Mediterranean and latest in Northern Europe). [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory
- arethuza 14y ago
  Wikipedia also suggests that "History" is related to historical records: "Events of the past prior to written record are considered prehistory." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History That seems a pretty sensible distinction between history and prehistory and the historical records in the UK doesn't go back that far - is there much before Roman times?
  - ballooney 14y ago
    > the historical records in the UK doesn't go back that far - is there much before Roman times? A bit - the Celtic period went from about 600BC to the Roman invasion, for example, and has left us lots of interesting art and metalwork, which is worth visiting if you ever find yourself at the British Museum.

apaprocki 14y ago

If anyone didn't notice, this story is from Wed Apr 6, 2011. It is linked from a larger story about hundreds of warriors being found in the bog which was posted yesterday: http://news.discovery.com/history/army-danish-bog-120816.html http://news.discovery.com/history/army-danish-bog-120816.htm...

DanielBMarkham 14y ago

There has been some work saying that you can preserve life by immediately removing oxygen from the cells. The theory is that the damage from death happens as the oxygen levels slowly decay, causing all sorts of damage. If you could exsanguinate a body immediately, then preserve it in an oxygen-free environment, it might have a chance of being revived. (Wish there was more news about this idea) If that's true, perhaps future generations might view finding this guy's brain as a great tragedy, because we lost a chance to actually bring somebody back from the Iron Age. Admittedly this is highly-speculative BS. But hey, it's the internet.

maxerickson 14y ago
The environment in a bog is still pretty destructive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_body http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_body It just happens to preserve certain organic tissues fairly well compared to other environments.
whileonebegin 14y ago
I just want to add, the subject was hanged and decapitated. For what, we'll probably never know. But just think about that with regard to bringing him back to life.
- rbanffy 14y ago
  I am not convinced the people who killed this guy were particularly cautious when applying capital punishment. But, again, nobody can be sure how good his lawyer was, since there is no written record of the criminal process that led to his execution in such... creative ways.
  - DanielBMarkham 14y ago
    Since it's Friday evening, a great book on creative executions is "The Executioner Always Chops Twice" -- fun and quick read. http://amzn.to/OnxaU7 http://amzn.to/OnxaU7

davidw 14y ago

Scientists described the brain as not dissimilar from one found pickled in a local pub.

lenkite 14y ago

This really isn't pre-history since there are Sumer tablets that are dated around 2500 BC. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Letter_Luenna_Louvre_AO4238.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Letter_Luenna_Louvre_AO423...