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> we're also trying to impress upon him that wages - however high - are not a path to wealth and security. Owning things is I'm not a parent, so I'm a little h

> we're also trying to impress upon him that wages - however high - are not a path to wealth and security. Owning things is I'm not a parent, so I'm a little hesitant to disagree, but this seems like the dumbest thing I've heard in my life. Wages are exactly the path to wealth and security -- the matter is what you do with those wages. You can't own things without receiving wages unless you inherit your wealth. If what you were trying to say is that the best path to being wealthy is to already be wealthy, then I definitely agree, but for those born missing their silver spoon wages are the only way. Your kid had his silver spoon (no offense intended here), and it seems like he's going to be a balanced person because he'll probably be able to see and appreciate different worlds, so congrats on that. I find it hard to believe someone can go into a field like welding (knowing tech exists, and having the aptitude). I am curious to hear though -- what is your plan? In my own pre-parent mind it seems like this is a chance to teach him about as much of the world and the people around him/society above and below him as you can before settles into his life (clearly there's a ton of time left to change, etc). The struggles of the average blue collar worker are very different from that of the white collar worker -- but the right advice about the various big things in life I'd imagine would make a world of difference. With regard to owning things, knowing things like "banks giving out mortgages are playing a trust game -- and they trust you a lot more if you have 50 working years left". It's possible of course to get a bad mortgage, but the first rung of the ladder is more about projections more than anything for young people. In the Bay Area I'm sure that... isn't reasonable advice though since your housing market is absolutely insane. Also, is he going into welding with some sort add-on skills? Like welding with a little bit of CS/robotics? Welding with a passion for cooking? etc. The (currently) secondary skill tree can completely change careers.

trollbridge 1y ago
Banks do not engage in age discrimination in giving mortgages. You can get one at age 20 or age 60, all else being equal. It’s a secured asset, so if you turn 65 and need to go into a nursing home for some , or die, they’re confident they can recoup the balance of the loan from the house when it is auctioned off or sold to another family member.
- hardwaresofton 1y ago
  > It’s a secured asset, so if you turn 65 and need to go into a nursing home for some , or die, they’re confident they can recoup the balance of the loan from the house when it is auctioned off or sold to another family member. Thanks for noting this, this was definitely a possibility I hadn't weighed enough, though I'm not sure it's always another family member (I assume you meant another family member or any random bidder) > Banks do not engage in age discrimination in giving mortgages. You can get one at age 20 or age 60, all else being equal. I find it hard to believe the suggestion here that as far as 30y loan repayment goes, all else equal, a 60 year old earning 70k a year is similarly risky to a 20 year old earning the same rate? From first principles, this clearly doesn't hold. Now, I assume you were referring to the illegality of considering age in loans -- it is illegal to consider age, but in this case the "age discrimination" is baked in -- because it's built into credit scores[0][1]. The common sense take prevails here, I think. Actual results on the ground often differ from what is and isn't legal/right, as anyone who is in an underrepresented class will attest to (I do not mean this in the preachy liberal sense, it's just the best way I can find to say it), I think this might be one of those cases (guess I'll find out when I'm 60?). [0]: https://www.aarp.org/money/personal-finance/mortgage-rejection-rates-spike-as-you-age/ https://www.aarp.org/money/personal-finance/mortgage-rejecti... [1]: https://www.philadelphiafed.org/-/media/frbp/assets/working-papers/2023/wp23-03.pdf https://www.philadelphiafed.org/-/media/frbp/assets/working-...
  - toast0 1y ago
    The aarp link seems to basically say that a lot of seniors are having loans rejected because of low reported income, so be sure to report retirement income. The philadelphia fed link notes that older people who apply for loans are being denied more often, but there's lots of potential reasons for that. Aggregate economic stats, other than credit score, in the table at the end look worse to my eye near the top age brackets (but maybe not at the same levels that rejection started climbing). It's not clear to me when it says age discrimination is prohibited, but mortality expectations are allowed. Seems like the same thing to me. The paper suggests there may be an element of selection, which resonates with me. Looking at my parents and their siblings, most all of them would have had a mortgage 30 years ago and likely be in these statistics; now, those with higher retirment incomes also seem to be the ones that paid off their mortgages and aren't interested in a new one.
yupitsme123 1y ago
I think all he's saying to the kid is to avoid the wage slage mindset of always being a worker, renter, and consumer. You don't have to be born wealthy to understand that or to work your way out of it. Wages are important but they're a mean not an end.
rahimnathwani 1y ago
Wages are exactly the path to wealth and security -- the matter is what you do with those wages. Wages are a path to wealth and security. But not everyone who became wealthy did so by selling their time to an employer (definition of wage).
adwn 1y ago
> Wages are exactly the path to wealth and security -- the matter is what you do with those wages. You can't own things without receiving wages unless you inherit your wealth. No, you can also build things to achieve wealth – for example, you can build a company and achieve wealth this way. This doesn't necessarily have to be a pump&dump startup, lots of entrepreneurs became wealthy by founding a sustainable business.

trollbridge 1y ago

Banks do not engage in age discrimination in giving mortgages. You can get one at age 20 or age 60, all else being equal. It’s a secured asset, so if you turn 65 and need to go into a nursing home for some , or die, they’re confident they can recoup the balance of the loan from the house when it is auctioned off or sold to another family member.

hardwaresofton 1y ago
> It’s a secured asset, so if you turn 65 and need to go into a nursing home for some , or die, they’re confident they can recoup the balance of the loan from the house when it is auctioned off or sold to another family member. Thanks for noting this, this was definitely a possibility I hadn't weighed enough, though I'm not sure it's always another family member (I assume you meant another family member or any random bidder) > Banks do not engage in age discrimination in giving mortgages. You can get one at age 20 or age 60, all else being equal. I find it hard to believe the suggestion here that as far as 30y loan repayment goes, all else equal, a 60 year old earning 70k a year is similarly risky to a 20 year old earning the same rate? From first principles, this clearly doesn't hold. Now, I assume you were referring to the illegality of considering age in loans -- it is illegal to consider age, but in this case the "age discrimination" is baked in -- because it's built into credit scores[0][1]. The common sense take prevails here, I think. Actual results on the ground often differ from what is and isn't legal/right, as anyone who is in an underrepresented class will attest to (I do not mean this in the preachy liberal sense, it's just the best way I can find to say it), I think this might be one of those cases (guess I'll find out when I'm 60?). [0]: https://www.aarp.org/money/personal-finance/mortgage-rejection-rates-spike-as-you-age/ https://www.aarp.org/money/personal-finance/mortgage-rejecti... [1]: https://www.philadelphiafed.org/-/media/frbp/assets/working-papers/2023/wp23-03.pdf https://www.philadelphiafed.org/-/media/frbp/assets/working-...
- toast0 1y ago
  The aarp link seems to basically say that a lot of seniors are having loans rejected because of low reported income, so be sure to report retirement income. The philadelphia fed link notes that older people who apply for loans are being denied more often, but there's lots of potential reasons for that. Aggregate economic stats, other than credit score, in the table at the end look worse to my eye near the top age brackets (but maybe not at the same levels that rejection started climbing). It's not clear to me when it says age discrimination is prohibited, but mortality expectations are allowed. Seems like the same thing to me. The paper suggests there may be an element of selection, which resonates with me. Looking at my parents and their siblings, most all of them would have had a mortgage 30 years ago and likely be in these statistics; now, those with higher retirment incomes also seem to be the ones that paid off their mortgages and aren't interested in a new one.

yupitsme123 1y ago

I think all he's saying to the kid is to avoid the wage slage mindset of always being a worker, renter, and consumer. You don't have to be born wealthy to understand that or to work your way out of it. Wages are important but they're a mean not an end.

rahimnathwani 1y ago

Wages are exactly the path to wealth and security -- the matter is what you do with those wages. Wages are a path to wealth and security. But not everyone who became wealthy did so by selling their time to an employer (definition of wage).

adwn 1y ago

> Wages are exactly the path to wealth and security -- the matter is what you do with those wages. You can't own things without receiving wages unless you inherit your wealth. No, you can also build things to achieve wealth – for example, you can build a company and achieve wealth this way. This doesn't necessarily have to be a pump&dump startup, lots of entrepreneurs became wealthy by founding a sustainable business.