5 ms·
...why? Seems pretty sensible to me?
by ratatoskrt 1y ago
...why? Seems pretty sensible to me?
- kortilla 1y agoSome people don’t like built in trackers
- rad_gruchalski 1y agoIt's not a tracker. It activates during an accident, or via manual action. Hopefully those same people know what ANPR is and how does it affect them.
- mousethatroared 1y agoOf course it is. We're just told differently until a leaker proves differently. Twenty years too late to do anything about it
- rad_gruchalski 1y agoThere are so many things in a modern car that track you. eCall is the smallest problem.
- koolba 1y agoIndeed there are: https://medium.com/@doctoreww/day-2-your-car-is-trackable-by-law-1d5f74388850 https://medium.com/@doctoreww/day-2-your-car-is-trackable-by... And “modern” is going back over a decade. So most cars on the road.
- mousethatroared 1y ago[flagged]
- XorNot 1y agoAnd naturally of course you don't carry a cellphone with you while you drive...you know, that device with accelerometers, GPS and an LTE chip that you leave powered on all the time on your person?
- mousethatroared 1y ago[flagged]
- GenshoTikamura 1y agoOf course I am free to carry it or not
- rad_gruchalski 1y agoYou are also free not to use a mode of transportation. You can, for example, buy an old car, register it on a historical number plate, and you’re good. There is no retrofit requirement. If you want a new car, suck it up.
- GenshoTikamura 1y agoI'm always amused at people who deem future and freedom of choice incompatible and effectively stating that the end game of all progress is absolute slavery and obedience. Other than having some vested interest in denying people's right to choose between positive and negative aspects of progress, or having a Stockholm syndrome towards those who have such interest, I got no plausible explanations to this psychological phenomenon
- rad_gruchalski 1y agoOmg what am I going to do. Yes yes. You know I’m selling trackers online and just lobbying on hacker news. You seem to be wasting your precious “armchair psychologist skills” here on hn.
- kortilla 1y ago
- timewizard 1y agoI can actually remove my number plate. One tool, five minutes, car still drives. And of course it's a tracker. It reports my location to a third party. There is no other definition for it. That it purportedly only does this during an "emergency" is not something I can verify nor trust.
- GenshoTikamura 1y agoI wonder what is your estimated ratio of number of active CCTV plate readers to that of cell towers out of a city and back in the country?
- rad_gruchalski 1y agoI’m certain you aren’t that important for anyone to care. Yes: it reports your location to a third party. When you have an accident. So you can get help. And of course it can be verified. At the end of the day it’s a sim card in a passive mode. Maybe you don’t know how to verify it. There are millions of them driving around. I’m sure someone more qualified than you would have already reported if they were tracking in real-time. The system is nearly a decade old.
- timewizard 1y ago> I’m certain you aren’t that important for anyone to care. Storage is cheap. We know the NSA hoovers up everything it can and puts in a database. This is facile reasoning. > So you can get help. How many accidents resulted in fatalities because 911 couldn't find the victim? What's the percentage on that you think? Is there _no other way_ to get help other than this system? > I’m sure someone more qualified than you would have already reported if You're just full of confidence. Pray tell where it comes from. What makes you believe this is true?
- rad_gruchalski 1y ago> You're just full of confidence. Pray tell where it comes from. What makes you believe this is true? I trust in people who look for this stuff as a daily job, or because „they’re here to get you”. Because you know a sim card in the open is really easy to verify. And there are thousands of them driving around but also easily approachable sitting targets in every possible setting. But you double down. I find this discussion pointless. > How many accidents resulted in fatalities because 911 couldn't find the victim? You’re missing the point of the eCall system. Think out of the box. What if there is no witness? What if everyone in the car cannot get help Everyone who could reach out for help, received it. Can you tell the same about those who weren’t able to contact first responders in time? Maybe they’re still missing! It’s called survivorship bias. Sounds like you are trying hard to be obnoxious.
- rustcleaner 1y agoIf it always has a cell tower connection, it is a tracker and... do you even operate?
- rad_gruchalski 1y agoWell… do you? eCall sim is passive, activated only in an emergency or explicitly as a response to the action of the occupants of the vehicle: https://www.bosch-presse.de/pressportal/de/en/bosch-explains-five-things-that-everyone-should-know-about-ecall-177984.html https://www.bosch-presse.de/pressportal/de/en/bosch-explains...
- hshdhdhj4444 1y agohttps://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/smart-mobility/road/its-directive-and-action-plan/interoperable-eu-wide-ecall_en https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/smart-mobili... Can you explain why these protections are not sufficient for privacy? > 112 eCall is not a black box. It does not record constantly the position of the vehicle, it records only a few data to determine the position and direction of the vehicle just before the crash and these data are only transmitted to emergency call centers if there is a serious crash. > eCall cannot be used to monitor motorist's moves. The SIM-card used to transmit the eCall data is dormant, i.e. it is only activated in case the vehicle has a serious accident (e.g. the airbag is activated).
- PaulDavisThe1st 1y agoBecause you have to just believe that they are followed, and cannot verify it.
- fucker42069 1y agoWell, for starters, the SIM card in the eCall system is only needed to receive a callback from the 112 service if the call drops, which the system automatically picks up. You can actually dial 112 without a SIM card in your phone, as a GSM device without one can still connect to nearby radio towers in a "limited-service set," better known as "emergency calls only." I know some carriers have strange quirks in their SIM provisioning systems. For instance, it may take more than a few minutes or require a specific type of coverage (like UMTS) for an otherwise "dormant" SIM card to activate from limited service on short notice. I found an article about eCall Callback that confirms this is a known problem: https://eena.org/blog/resolving-the-ecall-callback-issue/ https://eena.org/blog/resolving-the-ecall-callback-issue/
- owenversteeg 1y ago>112 eCall is not a black box. It does not record constantly the position of the vehicle, it records only a few data to determine the position and direction of the vehicle just before the crash and these data are only transmitted to emergency call centers if there is a serious crash. That statement is factually inconsistent. Either 112 eCall incorporates a time travel device or it must constantly record the position and direction of the vehicle and other data. In theory, that data is then deleted, but you have no way to verify that it is - and it would only require a trivial, unnoticeable software update to modify this. Thankfully, we're safe. Car software is notoriously high quality and rarely hacked. All governments are fully trustworthy, especially around espionage and privacy, and have a perfect track record of never lying to the public. Look, the European Commission stated that it cannot be hacked; "hackers cannot take control of it", from ec.europa.eu. They built an unhackable device. I am not sure what you could be worried about. If the government tells you something cannot be hacked, then it cannot be hacked. Furthermore, none of the EU member states have been found using other infrastructure to violate privacy laws.
- SoftTalker 1y agoAlmost everyone has a phone you don’t need a second one built in to your car.
- FireBeyond 1y agoAlmost like sometimes people get seriously injured in car accidents and can't get to their phone, assuming it's where it was left prior to the accident.
- ponector 1y agoWill your phone be easily accessible after a crash with rollover?
- GenshoTikamura 1y agoLet people decide if their fear of death warrants all kinds of surveillance on them and not shove that down their throats as in "we know that many of you would opt-out of being tracked so we made it mandatory", alright?
- paulddraper 1y agoUsually not always.
- bigstrat2003 1y agoThere's nothing at all sensible about legally mandating that all cars must have a device which can be used for surveillance. Still less so for something which is at best a marginal gain in safety.
- paulddraper 1y agoOne more thing to increase cost, fragility, security concerns, in an age when virtually everyone already has a cell device anyway.