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In America 2025, there is no better path to a high income and quality of life than learning a trade, then learning how to manage other tradespeople and then own

In America 2025, there is no better path to a high income and quality of life than learning a trade, then learning how to manage other tradespeople and then owning a company for such a trade. In the trades, if you are slightly smarter than average, have a good work ethic and an inkling of entrepreneurial drive, you will be very successful.

lurk2 1y ago
Do you work in the trades?
- DudeOpotomus 1y ago
  Yes, when I was young. Pre internet days. In the last 25 years, I've built 3 houses and remodeled half a dozen others. Worked very closely with these guys across the entire spectrum. From the unskilled, trying to cheat their way, to the 75 year old 50yr Journeyman who will never retire because he loves it. The trades were decimated by immigration and the race for cheaper labor, higher margins. What were once solid middle class jobs, were undercut by unskilled labor masquerading as skilled. Over time, the market raised the rate of the unskilled and lowered the rate of the skilled. Prices rose to meet the market but quality declined. Unskilled were charging the same rates as skilled. Today there are very few Journeyman tradesmen left. They were forced out. Which is why the market is crying for these skills and awarding them with high wages. Looking forward, the entire nation is lined up to build. Those who mange this growth and bring the skills, will become wealthy.
- fires10 1y ago
  I have worked in the trades as an electrician and then became an estimator/Project Manager. Most are small businesses that are barely hanging on. It is often not a path to wealth. Many of the smaller businesses are being bought up by private equity now to drive up prices. The tradesmen are not getting wealthy and typically will not become wealthy. Licensing a business is different than the license a tradesman gets. Rules vary by state and are often require the approval of your would be competitors, regardless of demonstrated skill and time in the trade.
  - DudeOpotomus 1y ago
    The facts are that the overwhelming majority of Trades(people), are terrible business people. They may be excellent at their jobs, but very, very , very few have the business skills to build a solid business. Those who do, do extremely well well. Those who hire people who have the skill, do really, really well. Not that different from engineers. Very few have business skills, but those who do, do very well.
solardev 1y ago
Programming used to be another skilled trade, before big tech and big money took over everything and corrupted it all. If there's good money in the trades, what's to stop them from similarly consolidating into national mega corps like every other field? Especially once we start encouraging former tech bros and VCs in, bringing with them their former mindsets?
- wnc3141 1y ago
  atleast for general contractors - Its a fundamentally different business model. Little growth, tiny margins, low fixed costs and tremendous requirement for trust and quality assurance.
- jagged-chisel 1y ago
  I’m a software engineer. I’m over 50 and experienced a difficult time getting a new position after my last one evaporated. I am now working as a “programmer” for CNC systems. (That means I draw shapes in CAD, lay them out on steel plates, and post those to the machines doing the work.) We have torch, plasma, and laser cutters, metal forming (really just bending), and a programmable drill. The tasks involved in completing the processing after my work are: fetch the metal plate (warehouse crane, forklift), place the plate (must be aligned and at the correct origin), collect the cut parts onto pallets (organized by customer), operate forming machines, and/or feed beams into the drill. Those tasks don’t exactly require skill. Because I’m a software guy, I’m always looking for opportunities for automation. We’re about as close to fully automated as you can get without advanced robots (requiring dexterity, observation, etc.) I guess my point is that there’s little room for former tech bro/VC “innovation” in my particular industry. I can see how it’s similar in many trades. They don’t necessarily require “skills” because anyone can learn quickly how to do them. Anyone but today’s robots.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  Unions. IBEW for electrical workers, for example.
- AngryData 1y ago
  A lot of HVAC companies have gone corporate now. Smaller companies are bought out and consolidated, higher paid and experienced personnel are let go, cheaper replacements are brought in that don't have much of a clue how to deal with older established systems, but they will definitely tell you if something is broke after you told them it was broke and offer to sell you a brand new system install that they don't have to troubleshoot with the skills and experience they lack and has a much higher margin than replacing a simple rollout switch or swap a new transformer or control board.
devwastaken 1y ago
trades are becoming the next walmart job in both pay and quality. you cant have a surplus and expect the system to be sustainable.
- wnc3141 1y ago
  You've noticed that the labor market is inherently a political problem. The only thing that sustains quality of pay and conditions is regulation and organization.
nineplay 1y ago
I can't speak for all trades, but in my experience 'owning a company' and 'high quality of life' rarely go hand in hand. Owning a company is hard. It's a 24/7 job where you are managing customers, employees, accounting, etc., and you can hire people to help but ultimately it's on you if someone screws up and orders the wrong cabinets. I'm happier working for Big Corp in an air-conditioned office.
spacemadness 1y ago
I would like someone to mythbust this belief as it seems like it runs off nothing but anecdotes. White collar folks seem to pull this one out as a grass is greener take on a different life path when their industry is starting to unwind.
- hnthrow90348765 1y ago
  >I would like someone to mythbust this belief as it seems like it runs off nothing but anecdotes. It can't happen for everyone, which is why all wages need to rise to make living affordable and then some. Capitalists love these competitive filters while disregarding all of the people that failed, but still promote it as viable without disclosing success/failure rates (and as anecdotes often do). A lack of awareness about the realities of starting a business - and the consequences of not succeeding - is repeatedly the dumbest thing I see espoused about going into the trades and is the equivalent of advertising some kid's anomalous yearly salary that includes overtime.
bongodongobob 1y ago
Skip the trade, go to a 2 year tech school and start at 60k as helpdesk and work your way up from there. I don't know why you'd bother with a trade.

lurk2 1y ago

Do you work in the trades?

DudeOpotomus 1y ago
Yes, when I was young. Pre internet days. In the last 25 years, I've built 3 houses and remodeled half a dozen others. Worked very closely with these guys across the entire spectrum. From the unskilled, trying to cheat their way, to the 75 year old 50yr Journeyman who will never retire because he loves it. The trades were decimated by immigration and the race for cheaper labor, higher margins. What were once solid middle class jobs, were undercut by unskilled labor masquerading as skilled. Over time, the market raised the rate of the unskilled and lowered the rate of the skilled. Prices rose to meet the market but quality declined. Unskilled were charging the same rates as skilled. Today there are very few Journeyman tradesmen left. They were forced out. Which is why the market is crying for these skills and awarding them with high wages. Looking forward, the entire nation is lined up to build. Those who mange this growth and bring the skills, will become wealthy.
fires10 1y ago
I have worked in the trades as an electrician and then became an estimator/Project Manager. Most are small businesses that are barely hanging on. It is often not a path to wealth. Many of the smaller businesses are being bought up by private equity now to drive up prices. The tradesmen are not getting wealthy and typically will not become wealthy. Licensing a business is different than the license a tradesman gets. Rules vary by state and are often require the approval of your would be competitors, regardless of demonstrated skill and time in the trade.
- DudeOpotomus 1y ago
  The facts are that the overwhelming majority of Trades(people), are terrible business people. They may be excellent at their jobs, but very, very , very few have the business skills to build a solid business. Those who do, do extremely well well. Those who hire people who have the skill, do really, really well. Not that different from engineers. Very few have business skills, but those who do, do very well.

solardev 1y ago

Programming used to be another skilled trade, before big tech and big money took over everything and corrupted it all. If there's good money in the trades, what's to stop them from similarly consolidating into national mega corps like every other field? Especially once we start encouraging former tech bros and VCs in, bringing with them their former mindsets?

wnc3141 1y ago
atleast for general contractors - Its a fundamentally different business model. Little growth, tiny margins, low fixed costs and tremendous requirement for trust and quality assurance.
jagged-chisel 1y ago
I’m a software engineer. I’m over 50 and experienced a difficult time getting a new position after my last one evaporated. I am now working as a “programmer” for CNC systems. (That means I draw shapes in CAD, lay them out on steel plates, and post those to the machines doing the work.) We have torch, plasma, and laser cutters, metal forming (really just bending), and a programmable drill. The tasks involved in completing the processing after my work are: fetch the metal plate (warehouse crane, forklift), place the plate (must be aligned and at the correct origin), collect the cut parts onto pallets (organized by customer), operate forming machines, and/or feed beams into the drill. Those tasks don’t exactly require skill. Because I’m a software guy, I’m always looking for opportunities for automation. We’re about as close to fully automated as you can get without advanced robots (requiring dexterity, observation, etc.) I guess my point is that there’s little room for former tech bro/VC “innovation” in my particular industry. I can see how it’s similar in many trades. They don’t necessarily require “skills” because anyone can learn quickly how to do them. Anyone but today’s robots.
toomuchtodo 1y ago
Unions. IBEW for electrical workers, for example.
AngryData 1y ago
A lot of HVAC companies have gone corporate now. Smaller companies are bought out and consolidated, higher paid and experienced personnel are let go, cheaper replacements are brought in that don't have much of a clue how to deal with older established systems, but they will definitely tell you if something is broke after you told them it was broke and offer to sell you a brand new system install that they don't have to troubleshoot with the skills and experience they lack and has a much higher margin than replacing a simple rollout switch or swap a new transformer or control board.

devwastaken 1y ago

trades are becoming the next walmart job in both pay and quality. you cant have a surplus and expect the system to be sustainable.

wnc3141 1y ago
You've noticed that the labor market is inherently a political problem. The only thing that sustains quality of pay and conditions is regulation and organization.

nineplay 1y ago

I can't speak for all trades, but in my experience 'owning a company' and 'high quality of life' rarely go hand in hand. Owning a company is hard. It's a 24/7 job where you are managing customers, employees, accounting, etc., and you can hire people to help but ultimately it's on you if someone screws up and orders the wrong cabinets. I'm happier working for Big Corp in an air-conditioned office.

spacemadness 1y ago

I would like someone to mythbust this belief as it seems like it runs off nothing but anecdotes. White collar folks seem to pull this one out as a grass is greener take on a different life path when their industry is starting to unwind.

hnthrow90348765 1y ago
>I would like someone to mythbust this belief as it seems like it runs off nothing but anecdotes. It can't happen for everyone, which is why all wages need to rise to make living affordable and then some. Capitalists love these competitive filters while disregarding all of the people that failed, but still promote it as viable without disclosing success/failure rates (and as anecdotes often do). A lack of awareness about the realities of starting a business - and the consequences of not succeeding - is repeatedly the dumbest thing I see espoused about going into the trades and is the equivalent of advertising some kid's anomalous yearly salary that includes overtime.

bongodongobob 1y ago

Skip the trade, go to a 2 year tech school and start at 60k as helpdesk and work your way up from there. I don't know why you'd bother with a trade.