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I think the problem is businesses are tiny little fascist dictatorships. They are always trying to pay less taxes, evade regulations, layoff workers, monopolize

I think the problem is businesses are tiny little fascist dictatorships. They are always trying to pay less taxes, evade regulations, layoff workers, monopolize, destroy competitors etc. This is their first time ever having to think about the public sphere, or common good, or government, or democracy, or rule of law. They suck at that, it goes against all their training and instincts.

yeeshh 1y ago
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epistasis 1y ago
I don't think that's true at all, business has had to think about the public sphere and how to shape it to their benefit since corporations started. For a long time Silicon Valley tried to avoid politics, or at least that was the vibe of everyone. But even in the 1980s, when Japan was rising and threatening to outcompete the US semiconductor industry, Captains of Industry that had been former strident libertarians went hat in hand to Uncle Sam to tilt the field to favor their survival.
- mistrial9 1y ago
  there might be insight there, but.. too broad brush. As "everyone knows" Silicon Valley started as a dot-mil fab but California invented the personal computer and sold it. Hey wait, just California?! yes, mostly.. See the West Coast Computer Fair .. shout out to Byte Magazine from New England too. "avoid politics" was true for some stripes of participants and completely not true for others.. It is true IMHO that consumer gear generated a lot of success and was largely apolitical.
- Herring 1y ago
  You missed the point. Yes I agree they're more concerned with "how to tilt the field", but that's not what good governance is (should be) about. It's a bit like a kid trying to push the bounds of acceptable behavior, versus a parent trying to figure out how to raise multiple kids well.
- CalChris 1y ago
  One thing I've learned in my long life is that there ain't no such thing as a libertarian.
nadir_ishiguro 1y ago
No, they always very actively did everything they could to get as much money and influence out of whatever political system they're operating under. The Nazis very happily and intentionally worked together with corporations and the corporations were happy to exploit the free slave labor and lack of competition.
ed-209 1y ago
Replace "training and instincts" with "incentives" and you may have the rudiments of an argument, though it's not clear to me what that argument is.
gruez 1y ago
>I think the problem is businesses are tiny little fascist dictatorships. They are always trying to pay less taxes, evade regulations, layoff workers, monopolize, destroy competitors etc Are you just using "fascist dictatorships" as a generic label for things you don't like? The things you've listed might be bad, but they're neither dictatorial nor fascist. It's even questionable whether some of the things are even bad. Don't we all try to minimize our tax burden? Is there anyone out there who refuse tax credits because that means "paying less taxes"?
- lurk2 1y ago
  > Are you just using "fascist dictatorships" as a generic label for things you don't like? That has been the pattern for the last 10 years.
- thethethethe 1y ago
  Not a huge fan of calling random things you don't like fascist but op has a point here > The things you've listed might be bad, but they're neither dictatorial nor fascist. Uhh I'm pretty sure that CEOs/executives act very similar to dictators. Large companies certainly don't act like democracies. Companies often employ many forms of totalitarian control used by fascist dictatorships. There's often mass surveillance (mouse trackers, email auditing, etc), suppression of speech, suppression of opposition, fear of termination, cult of personality. The tax stuff is irrelevant imo though
  - gruez 1y ago
    >Uhh I'm pretty sure that CEOs/executives act very similar to dictators. Large companies certainly don't act like democracies. Companies often employ many forms of totalitarian control used by fascist dictatorships. There's often mass surveillance (mouse trackers, email auditing, etc), suppression of speech, suppression of opposition, fear of termination, cult of personality. Where does employment/voluntary association end and "fascist dictator" begin? If you're being paid for your time, it's only fair that whoever's paying you can monitor your work and decide what you're doing. I agree that some businesses go beyond this and try to regulate what you do outside of work, but it's a stretch to make a broad claim like "businesses are tiny little fascist dictatorships". That makes as much sense as "governments are tiny little fascist dictatorships", just because some of them are authoritarian.
eWeSaYYY 1y ago
That’s endemic to American capitalism not VCs of modern times. Wall Street is built on looting the pensions of retirees. The American economy has always been “already absurdly rich person takes 9 of the widgets worker produced and leaves workers 1 to share.” In the money printer era this allowed big salaries for some compared to the norm but the rich still took their 9 too. We wrapped mafia like thug behavior of the pre and post war world into empty semantics. The only option for unlocking a massive amount of liquidity for the public to stabilize their individual situations is taxing the rich.
- atmavatar 1y ago
  I've heard modern US politics described like the following: A rich man, a blue-collar worker, and an immigrant are sitting around a table. In the center of the table is a plate of a dozen cookies. The rich man takes 11 of them, then leans in and whispers to the blue-collar worker "hey, I think that guy wants your cookie."
  - eWeSaYYY 1y ago
    The most insane are the science minded who understand it’s made up social gossip but role play sycophant nonetheless. All our best thinkers, the propaganda goes. Their best idea for the economy is submit the status quo. Their biology lives the experience every day that as a knowledge worker with little real world skill at providing for themselves, it’s actually they who are the most easily manipulated and kowtowed.

yeeshh 1y ago

[dead]

epistasis 1y ago

I don't think that's true at all, business has had to think about the public sphere and how to shape it to their benefit since corporations started. For a long time Silicon Valley tried to avoid politics, or at least that was the vibe of everyone. But even in the 1980s, when Japan was rising and threatening to outcompete the US semiconductor industry, Captains of Industry that had been former strident libertarians went hat in hand to Uncle Sam to tilt the field to favor their survival.

mistrial9 1y ago
there might be insight there, but.. too broad brush. As "everyone knows" Silicon Valley started as a dot-mil fab but California invented the personal computer and sold it. Hey wait, just California?! yes, mostly.. See the West Coast Computer Fair .. shout out to Byte Magazine from New England too. "avoid politics" was true for some stripes of participants and completely not true for others.. It is true IMHO that consumer gear generated a lot of success and was largely apolitical.
Herring 1y ago
You missed the point. Yes I agree they're more concerned with "how to tilt the field", but that's not what good governance is (should be) about. It's a bit like a kid trying to push the bounds of acceptable behavior, versus a parent trying to figure out how to raise multiple kids well.
CalChris 1y ago
One thing I've learned in my long life is that there ain't no such thing as a libertarian.

nadir_ishiguro 1y ago

No, they always very actively did everything they could to get as much money and influence out of whatever political system they're operating under. The Nazis very happily and intentionally worked together with corporations and the corporations were happy to exploit the free slave labor and lack of competition.

ed-209 1y ago

Replace "training and instincts" with "incentives" and you may have the rudiments of an argument, though it's not clear to me what that argument is.

gruez 1y ago

>I think the problem is businesses are tiny little fascist dictatorships. They are always trying to pay less taxes, evade regulations, layoff workers, monopolize, destroy competitors etc Are you just using "fascist dictatorships" as a generic label for things you don't like? The things you've listed might be bad, but they're neither dictatorial nor fascist. It's even questionable whether some of the things are even bad. Don't we all try to minimize our tax burden? Is there anyone out there who refuse tax credits because that means "paying less taxes"?

lurk2 1y ago
> Are you just using "fascist dictatorships" as a generic label for things you don't like? That has been the pattern for the last 10 years.
thethethethe 1y ago
Not a huge fan of calling random things you don't like fascist but op has a point here > The things you've listed might be bad, but they're neither dictatorial nor fascist. Uhh I'm pretty sure that CEOs/executives act very similar to dictators. Large companies certainly don't act like democracies. Companies often employ many forms of totalitarian control used by fascist dictatorships. There's often mass surveillance (mouse trackers, email auditing, etc), suppression of speech, suppression of opposition, fear of termination, cult of personality. The tax stuff is irrelevant imo though
- gruez 1y ago
  >Uhh I'm pretty sure that CEOs/executives act very similar to dictators. Large companies certainly don't act like democracies. Companies often employ many forms of totalitarian control used by fascist dictatorships. There's often mass surveillance (mouse trackers, email auditing, etc), suppression of speech, suppression of opposition, fear of termination, cult of personality. Where does employment/voluntary association end and "fascist dictator" begin? If you're being paid for your time, it's only fair that whoever's paying you can monitor your work and decide what you're doing. I agree that some businesses go beyond this and try to regulate what you do outside of work, but it's a stretch to make a broad claim like "businesses are tiny little fascist dictatorships". That makes as much sense as "governments are tiny little fascist dictatorships", just because some of them are authoritarian.

eWeSaYYY 1y ago

That’s endemic to American capitalism not VCs of modern times. Wall Street is built on looting the pensions of retirees. The American economy has always been “already absurdly rich person takes 9 of the widgets worker produced and leaves workers 1 to share.” In the money printer era this allowed big salaries for some compared to the norm but the rich still took their 9 too. We wrapped mafia like thug behavior of the pre and post war world into empty semantics. The only option for unlocking a massive amount of liquidity for the public to stabilize their individual situations is taxing the rich.

atmavatar 1y ago
I've heard modern US politics described like the following: A rich man, a blue-collar worker, and an immigrant are sitting around a table. In the center of the table is a plate of a dozen cookies. The rich man takes 11 of them, then leans in and whispers to the blue-collar worker "hey, I think that guy wants your cookie."
- eWeSaYYY 1y ago
  The most insane are the science minded who understand it’s made up social gossip but role play sycophant nonetheless. All our best thinkers, the propaganda goes. Their best idea for the economy is submit the status quo. Their biology lives the experience every day that as a knowledge worker with little real world skill at providing for themselves, it’s actually they who are the most easily manipulated and kowtowed.