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Having done this discussion on HN a few times, there seems to be a dogmatic difference, correlated to being American. Some people favour freedom of speech abov

Having done this discussion on HN a few times, there seems to be a dogmatic difference, correlated to being American. Some people favour freedom of speech above all else, and reject the notion it should be curbed for fuzzy concepts such as societal benefit. Some people think freedom of speech should work for the society. We limit it anyway - threats of violence are always out. So might as well push this boundary a bit. I found it useless to debate the merits of these points because, as I say, it seems to be dogmatic. You believe either one or the other. Personally I'm in the second camp. And frankly more so since Trump and his "free speech absolutists" won. Musk seems to be censoring Twitter all over, support for Israel is boundless but speak up for Palestine and ICE detains you... If "absolute free speech" is curbed by whatever the government likes, then what's the point?

d4v3 1y ago
> Musk seems to be censoring Twitter all over, support for Israel is boundless but speak up for Palestine and ICE detains you... If "absolute free speech" is curbed by whatever the government likes, then what's the point? The existence of imperfections isn’t a reason to abandon the principle. Things take time to work thru the courts and such.
int_19h 1y ago
> Musk seems to be censoring Twitter all over Twitter is a private platform, though, so it's not government censorship. Musk can censor all he likes there, but there are still multiple alternative avenues for communicating those viewpoints. When government censors something, it applies universally, so this isn't comparable. > peak up for Palestine and ICE detains you ... if you're not a citizen. This is an example of why the 1st Amendment in US doesn't go far enough, because it doesn't fully protect free speech rights of certain groups (at least as this administration interprets it; the courts are still working through the challenges, so we'll see). I find it very strange that you're using this example as an argument that there should be fewer free speech protections - do you want FBI to start detaining citizens as well when they criticize Israel? Because that's exactly what would happen if 1A would be gone tomorrow somehow.

d4v3 1y ago

> Musk seems to be censoring Twitter all over, support for Israel is boundless but speak up for Palestine and ICE detains you... If "absolute free speech" is curbed by whatever the government likes, then what's the point? The existence of imperfections isn’t a reason to abandon the principle. Things take time to work thru the courts and such.

int_19h 1y ago

> Musk seems to be censoring Twitter all over Twitter is a private platform, though, so it's not government censorship. Musk can censor all he likes there, but there are still multiple alternative avenues for communicating those viewpoints. When government censors something, it applies universally, so this isn't comparable. > peak up for Palestine and ICE detains you ... if you're not a citizen. This is an example of why the 1st Amendment in US doesn't go far enough, because it doesn't fully protect free speech rights of certain groups (at least as this administration interprets it; the courts are still working through the challenges, so we'll see). I find it very strange that you're using this example as an argument that there should be fewer free speech protections - do you want FBI to start detaining citizens as well when they criticize Israel? Because that's exactly what would happen if 1A would be gone tomorrow somehow.