I also used both of these at a formative time in my programming career, and it really felt magical. I built half a dozen little apps, some using Access (another

I also used both of these at a formative time in my programming career, and it really felt magical. I built half a dozen little apps, some using Access (another product whose loss I mourn), to solve problems at the small company I worked for that “professional” developers quoted us many times my salary to develop.