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> as good This is a point that will be recurring and merits more thought IMHO. Google services are mostly better because they crushed competition. Cutting the

> as good This is a point that will be recurring and merits more thought IMHO. Google services are mostly better because they crushed competition. Cutting their advantage will also mean better alternatives (money will flow to competitors instead of being sucked by Google). As an analogy, it's like athlete doping: they sure were faster than the other athletes, but that's part of the issue.

Workaccount2 1y ago
The fundamental issue is that people don't want to pay money for things. Google tapped into that by creating an ad economy, which since it's inception also comes with a payment optional feature (ad-blocking). People may hate google, but by god do they ever love the internet google created.
- makeitdouble 1y ago
  Yes, that's why anti-dumping laws were put into place, except it's complicated to expand to online markets. I actually wonder how much people actually like the current web. People bitching about popups and ads is enough of a staple of our culture.
  - Workaccount2 1y ago
    People hate the current web the way a teenager hates the Blue 2023 F-150 his parents got him because a Black 2025 Dodge Ram is what he wanted.
    - makeitdouble 1y ago
      If his parents dipped into the funds their grand-parent left to release at his 18th birthday, just to buy him the F150, he sure should be pissed about not getting what he actually wanted. What Google "gives" isn't popping from nowhere, the billions they use to fund it still came from us, just in indirect ways.
    - MyOutfitIsVague 1y ago
      Google services are not a gift. They are not actually free. Google is not a charity nor is it a non-profit. I want people in this discussion to stop arguing as if Google isn't making money on all these services. If the parents were slowly siphoning off enough of the teen's money through a convoluted set of channels such that the teenager indirectly paid for the truck anyway and the parents ended up effectively taking a share of the money, that would be definitely worth hating.
      - Workaccount2 1y ago
        The point is that people are spoiled and still complaining. A replacement for Google is 15 services that are $9.99/mo or ad-supported with zero tolerance for ad blocking. People are blind to this, they think Google is a charity that got greedy. Meanwhile they haven't let a Google ad through their ad blocker for 15 years.
        makeitdouble 1y ago
        > A replacement for Google is 15 services that are $9.99/mo or ad-supported with zero tolerance for ad blocking. Youtube Premium is $13.99/mo or you get ads with also zero tolerance for ad blocking. We've already been there for a while wherever Google is serious about it.
        Workaccount2 1y ago
        You can still block yt ads on desktop. I don't think people understand that it would be trivial for Google to block anyone with an ad blocker from accessing any Google domain. And if they did that, cut off the people who use the services but never pay, those people would complain.
        makeitdouble 1y ago
        It's not consistent but they do block users [0] when adblock is detected. I wonder how it goes internally and what's the actual reason that stops them for doing it full scale, but I've personally got the block so can confirm it's a real thing, and assume they won't be giving it up (of course workarounds also exist) [0] https://www.techspot.com/news/107221-youtube-anti-ad-blocker-measures-causing-problems-browsers.html https://www.techspot.com/news/107221-youtube-anti-ad-blocker...
- dreghgh 1y ago
  I pay for cloud storage, not from Google. I'm happy to pay for this, and I use enough storage there I would be paying Google if I used their storage. Almost every time I go into the Photos all on my phone, there's a dark pattern which tries to get me to turn on backups. If I do this, app my personal photos will be uploaded to Google's servers, possibly forever, possibly to be used in ways I have never consented to. Then the UI will change so that I'm never presented with an explicit choice of turning this off, ever again, and will have to search for how to do it. I don't love the internet Google created.
- nobody9999 1y ago
  >People may hate google, but by god do they ever love the internet google created. Actually, we don't. Google is a prime culprit in the 'enshittification' of the Internet. As Cory Doctorow can explain[0] to you. [0] https://pluralistic.net/2025/05/08/who-broke-the-internet/#bruce-lehman https://pluralistic.net/2025/05/08/who-broke-the-internet/#b...
lolinder 1y ago
Exactly. People keep saying "the alternatives aren't as good" as though markets aren't filled with feedback loops and the other products being worse somehow proves that Google is winning on fair terms. Google's products being better doesn't prove the system is fair, all it proves is that Google is better at navigating the current system, which is hardly surprising given that they have largely been able to shape it for themselves.

Workaccount2 1y ago

The fundamental issue is that people don't want to pay money for things. Google tapped into that by creating an ad economy, which since it's inception also comes with a payment optional feature (ad-blocking). People may hate google, but by god do they ever love the internet google created.

makeitdouble 1y ago
Yes, that's why anti-dumping laws were put into place, except it's complicated to expand to online markets. I actually wonder how much people actually like the current web. People bitching about popups and ads is enough of a staple of our culture.
- Workaccount2 1y ago
  People hate the current web the way a teenager hates the Blue 2023 F-150 his parents got him because a Black 2025 Dodge Ram is what he wanted.
  - makeitdouble 1y ago
    If his parents dipped into the funds their grand-parent left to release at his 18th birthday, just to buy him the F150, he sure should be pissed about not getting what he actually wanted. What Google "gives" isn't popping from nowhere, the billions they use to fund it still came from us, just in indirect ways.
  - MyOutfitIsVague 1y ago
    Google services are not a gift. They are not actually free. Google is not a charity nor is it a non-profit. I want people in this discussion to stop arguing as if Google isn't making money on all these services. If the parents were slowly siphoning off enough of the teen's money through a convoluted set of channels such that the teenager indirectly paid for the truck anyway and the parents ended up effectively taking a share of the money, that would be definitely worth hating.
    - Workaccount2 1y ago
      The point is that people are spoiled and still complaining. A replacement for Google is 15 services that are $9.99/mo or ad-supported with zero tolerance for ad blocking. People are blind to this, they think Google is a charity that got greedy. Meanwhile they haven't let a Google ad through their ad blocker for 15 years.
      - makeitdouble 1y ago
        > A replacement for Google is 15 services that are $9.99/mo or ad-supported with zero tolerance for ad blocking. Youtube Premium is $13.99/mo or you get ads with also zero tolerance for ad blocking. We've already been there for a while wherever Google is serious about it.
        Workaccount2 1y ago
        You can still block yt ads on desktop. I don't think people understand that it would be trivial for Google to block anyone with an ad blocker from accessing any Google domain. And if they did that, cut off the people who use the services but never pay, those people would complain.
        makeitdouble 1y ago
        It's not consistent but they do block users [0] when adblock is detected. I wonder how it goes internally and what's the actual reason that stops them for doing it full scale, but I've personally got the block so can confirm it's a real thing, and assume they won't be giving it up (of course workarounds also exist) [0] https://www.techspot.com/news/107221-youtube-anti-ad-blocker-measures-causing-problems-browsers.html https://www.techspot.com/news/107221-youtube-anti-ad-blocker...
dreghgh 1y ago
I pay for cloud storage, not from Google. I'm happy to pay for this, and I use enough storage there I would be paying Google if I used their storage. Almost every time I go into the Photos all on my phone, there's a dark pattern which tries to get me to turn on backups. If I do this, app my personal photos will be uploaded to Google's servers, possibly forever, possibly to be used in ways I have never consented to. Then the UI will change so that I'm never presented with an explicit choice of turning this off, ever again, and will have to search for how to do it. I don't love the internet Google created.
nobody9999 1y ago
>People may hate google, but by god do they ever love the internet google created. Actually, we don't. Google is a prime culprit in the 'enshittification' of the Internet. As Cory Doctorow can explain[0] to you. [0] https://pluralistic.net/2025/05/08/who-broke-the-internet/#bruce-lehman https://pluralistic.net/2025/05/08/who-broke-the-internet/#b...

lolinder 1y ago

Exactly. People keep saying "the alternatives aren't as good" as though markets aren't filled with feedback loops and the other products being worse somehow proves that Google is winning on fair terms. Google's products being better doesn't prove the system is fair, all it proves is that Google is better at navigating the current system, which is hardly surprising given that they have largely been able to shape it for themselves.