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The answer is industrial processing. Inhaling combustants is bad no matter the plant matter but the tobacco industry has over a century of experience in optimiz

The answer is industrial processing. Inhaling combustants is bad no matter the plant matter but the tobacco industry has over a century of experience in optimizing their product which leads to a lot of nasty chemicals that have been grandfathered in as a historical accident. They “reconstitute” tobacco dust and other waste into usable material via binders (“sheet tobacco”), add humectants to keep the tobacco from drying out, preservatives to keep it from oxidizing, shit to enhance the flavor, “puff up” tobacco with a bunch of chemicals so it takes up more volume, and so on. Since the 2000s there’s also compounds similar to flame retardants (!!!) in the wrapping so that the cigarette goes out if you fall asleep, instead of burning your house down. Much of these additions come from reprocessing the waste from previous steps to “minimize waste.” Marijuana on the other hand is religiously tested for pesticides and other contaminants in most states. However that industry isn’t far behind: a friend loves diamond/oil infused blunts and to me it’s blatantly obvious that they’re using some of the same techniques to repurpose lost terpenes and adding synthetic aromatics that were never tested for combustion.

AStonesThrow 1y ago
I feel like the harms of alcohol are also magnified by adulterants here. For example, an alcoholic will often choose dirt-cheap beer or spirits to consume on the regular. Is that stuff pure and clean? No. There is no requirement to label ingredients in a bottle of wine, beer, or vodka. You can put any old stuff in there as long as you're not outright poisoning people. They're going to a convenience store, or a dive bar that carries the worst stuff and they're going to drink that, day-in, day-out, to excess. I believe that, if drinkers had access to pure and clean ethanol-based beverages, and also maintained good nutrition and a decent diet, they wouldn't get all this liver failure and horrific metabolic stuff that they suffer as alcoholics. I feel it's often tangential to the substance itself. When I smoked, I often picked up clove cigarettes. My hairdresser friend with purple hair advised me that the molecules of clove smoke were huge compared to tobacco smoke and I was killing myself that much faster. I thank President Obama for finally closing out the clove cigarette market. I was eventually smoking American Spirits, which are mass-market, but touted as extra pure or clean. Who knows, really?
- throwup238 1y ago
  In that case they’re not adulterants but natural byproducts of fermentation. That’s why most liquors are aged, to give the chemical reactions time to eliminate those byproducts (like trace amounts of methanol from fermented pectin). A “fun” experiment to run along those lines is making prison hooch* or using turbo yeast. You can get anywhere from 20-30% ABV in a week or two, but if you drink it immediately it will result in the worst hangover you’ve ever had. It takes months of aging for it to become drinkable. * The PrisonHooch subreddit is delightful. Who doesn’t want liquor made from Nerds candy or Gatorade?
  - eru 1y ago
    NileRed (on YouTube) made alcohol from toilet paper to show what's possible. Btw, distilling already removes most byproducts. (But you might still want to age.) Your comment seems a bit confused about straight up fermented products vs distilling fermented products. I'm not sure you can get 20%-30% alcohol just from using fermentation. 18% is already a stretch and requires a lot of tricks. But you can get to your 20%-30% easily with some basic distilling equipment.
    - throwup238 1y ago
      Distillation removes most byproducts but not enough to really matter. Their boiling points aren’t different enough and like with ethanol, distillation concentrates the bad stuff. It depends on the fermentation source but even vodka becomes significantly more drinkable when properly filtered. 18% requires a lot of tricks if you’re going the classical EC1118 route* but you can easily get 20% in a week or two from just turbo yeast (although its nigh undrinkable). I haven’t seen many reliable reports of 30% but plenty of 24-26%. * which IIRC is capable of 21% en extremis
      - eru 1y ago
        Agreed. Distillation removes most _kinds_ of byproducts, but leaves some kinds nearly untouched. Eg no sugars come over, but unless really careful you get all kinds of weird other alkanols, like methanol, and other volatile crap. Filtering can remove that crap, yes. I didn't know that there are yeasts that are so much more alcohol tolerant. Interesting.
selfselfgo 1y ago
[dead]
everdrive 1y ago
I would understand this to mean that natural cigarettes (just some tobacco in paper) would be much healthier. However, I don't think this is true either. I hear you regarding the shocking and astoundingly bad chemicals added to the process, but my impression is that any kind of smoke is also quite bad for you. (as an aside, we're cursed with flame retardant chemicals in our couches and mattresses because people are too stupid not to fall asleep while smoking)
- throwup238 1y ago
  Yes and no. There is some statistical evidence that American Spirits are “healthier” than Marlboros and Camels and whatnot, because they don’t do the same level of industrial processing. That applies to their loose tobacco too. Thing is, cigarette filters absorb such large amounts of tar and other nasties that it’s not entirely clear that hand rolled cigarettes can ever be healthier than industrial ones, unless you’re careful to use proper filters every time.

AStonesThrow 1y ago

I feel like the harms of alcohol are also magnified by adulterants here. For example, an alcoholic will often choose dirt-cheap beer or spirits to consume on the regular. Is that stuff pure and clean? No. There is no requirement to label ingredients in a bottle of wine, beer, or vodka. You can put any old stuff in there as long as you're not outright poisoning people. They're going to a convenience store, or a dive bar that carries the worst stuff and they're going to drink that, day-in, day-out, to excess. I believe that, if drinkers had access to pure and clean ethanol-based beverages, and also maintained good nutrition and a decent diet, they wouldn't get all this liver failure and horrific metabolic stuff that they suffer as alcoholics. I feel it's often tangential to the substance itself. When I smoked, I often picked up clove cigarettes. My hairdresser friend with purple hair advised me that the molecules of clove smoke were huge compared to tobacco smoke and I was killing myself that much faster. I thank President Obama for finally closing out the clove cigarette market. I was eventually smoking American Spirits, which are mass-market, but touted as extra pure or clean. Who knows, really?

throwup238 1y ago
In that case they’re not adulterants but natural byproducts of fermentation. That’s why most liquors are aged, to give the chemical reactions time to eliminate those byproducts (like trace amounts of methanol from fermented pectin). A “fun” experiment to run along those lines is making prison hooch* or using turbo yeast. You can get anywhere from 20-30% ABV in a week or two, but if you drink it immediately it will result in the worst hangover you’ve ever had. It takes months of aging for it to become drinkable. * The PrisonHooch subreddit is delightful. Who doesn’t want liquor made from Nerds candy or Gatorade?
- eru 1y ago
  NileRed (on YouTube) made alcohol from toilet paper to show what's possible. Btw, distilling already removes most byproducts. (But you might still want to age.) Your comment seems a bit confused about straight up fermented products vs distilling fermented products. I'm not sure you can get 20%-30% alcohol just from using fermentation. 18% is already a stretch and requires a lot of tricks. But you can get to your 20%-30% easily with some basic distilling equipment.
  - throwup238 1y ago
    Distillation removes most byproducts but not enough to really matter. Their boiling points aren’t different enough and like with ethanol, distillation concentrates the bad stuff. It depends on the fermentation source but even vodka becomes significantly more drinkable when properly filtered. 18% requires a lot of tricks if you’re going the classical EC1118 route* but you can easily get 20% in a week or two from just turbo yeast (although its nigh undrinkable). I haven’t seen many reliable reports of 30% but plenty of 24-26%. * which IIRC is capable of 21% en extremis
    - eru 1y ago
      Agreed. Distillation removes most _kinds_ of byproducts, but leaves some kinds nearly untouched. Eg no sugars come over, but unless really careful you get all kinds of weird other alkanols, like methanol, and other volatile crap. Filtering can remove that crap, yes. I didn't know that there are yeasts that are so much more alcohol tolerant. Interesting.

selfselfgo 1y ago

[dead]

everdrive 1y ago

I would understand this to mean that natural cigarettes (just some tobacco in paper) would be much healthier. However, I don't think this is true either. I hear you regarding the shocking and astoundingly bad chemicals added to the process, but my impression is that any kind of smoke is also quite bad for you. (as an aside, we're cursed with flame retardant chemicals in our couches and mattresses because people are too stupid not to fall asleep while smoking)

throwup238 1y ago
Yes and no. There is some statistical evidence that American Spirits are “healthier” than Marlboros and Camels and whatnot, because they don’t do the same level of industrial processing. That applies to their loose tobacco too. Thing is, cigarette filters absorb such large amounts of tar and other nasties that it’s not entirely clear that hand rolled cigarettes can ever be healthier than industrial ones, unless you’re careful to use proper filters every time.