3 ms·

As a fairly hard core enviromentalist, and long term dedicated climate/ weather junky, who was born and raised in a socialy aware and progresive family, I cant

As a fairly hard core enviromentalist, and long term dedicated climate/ weather junky, who was born and raised in a socialy aware and progresive family, I cant quite agree with the title, and bunch like it floating around like it tight now. The basic fact is that humans primary extraction of raw materials is now in the,(say it out load, for the thump) hundreds of billions of tons per anum range, this represents everything we do, and the unstopable momentum of our species to get some stuff, the stuff per capita that we are getting, keeps going up, and the population keeps going up, and any attempt to limit the other 8~9 billion people from getting stuff, will make them very very angry....it makes them mad, makes me mad. So this looks like an attemp to use populist anger at the elites, to squeeze the poor.

52-6F-62 1y ago
Who’s driving the bus full of those poor and disaffected people looking for comfort? Who is setting the example of how one can live? Who is it leading? Shit rolls downhill alright, but the buck stops with whoever is holding it. And who is holding it?
lm28469 1y ago
The hard pill to swallow is that you can be an "hard core environmentalist", "born in a socially aware an progressive family" and still statistically be in the top 10% contributor of co2/pollution, this isn't mutually exclusive at all. The American lifestyle pollutes twice as much as the European one which already pollutes like 5x too much to be sustainable (as per the targets most countries collectively agreed to) if everyone had access to it We designed systems in which the simple fact of being alive is already not sustainable, it's OK to feel bad about it but you can't really deny it Edit: and out of these 8-9b a good 30% just want a proper shelter, reliable access to clean water and proper nutrition, I don't think it's an outrageous request and I don't see why it upsets your feeling. We're a long way from them requesting American mcmansions with a 4 car garage, 5 hvac units, a jacuzzi, &c.
- metalman 1y ago
  hmmmm, I think we agree, but I didn't phrase it well, my point is that the worlds consumption is huge, and growing, and that this growth in consumption will be driven by the bottom two thirds, rightly, trying to level up to a place where they see there children and grand children having ....you know, walls and a roof, clean water, and things to smile about..... I have travelled some of the meanest streets in the world, and begrudge no one there hopes for something decent, but I got to those streets, by jet liner, and have rubbed shoulders with some of the worlds wealthiest on the way, living societies contradictions in real time..,it's hard to convey
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- RetroTechie 1y ago
  > The hard pill to swallow is that you can be an "hard core environmentalist", "born in a socially aware an progressive family" and still statistically be in the top 10% contributor of co2/pollution, this isn't mutually exclusive at all. Count me in that exact demographic. Pill swallowed - long ago. Still: humanity's dealings are unsustainable, period. The way I see it, there's a few ways out: # Large scale conflict (nukes deployed?), human civilization thrown back to a dark age. Grim, but more sustainable than today! # Technology: 'synthetic' foods, regenerative agriculture, fusion power, etc. It helps, but don't hold your breath. # Get our numbers down. Yeah this is not a popular subject. But the sheer no. of humans is a big part of the problem. # Out of control consumerism, fast fashion etc must be curbed. Starting with the 1..10% wealthiest people looks like low-hanging fruit to me. 'Wild' example: an immediate, worldwide ban on mega-yachts would hurt no-one. # Fossil fuels must go. Attacking all these angles simultaneouly (& co-operating / co-ordinating where possible) is the only way to avert a worldwide chaos/conflict scenario.
ashoeafoot 1y ago
The "as a" dragged on to long stopped reading before the castedeclaration was finished .

52-6F-62 1y ago

Who’s driving the bus full of those poor and disaffected people looking for comfort? Who is setting the example of how one can live? Who is it leading? Shit rolls downhill alright, but the buck stops with whoever is holding it. And who is holding it?

lm28469 1y ago

The hard pill to swallow is that you can be an "hard core environmentalist", "born in a socially aware an progressive family" and still statistically be in the top 10% contributor of co2/pollution, this isn't mutually exclusive at all. The American lifestyle pollutes twice as much as the European one which already pollutes like 5x too much to be sustainable (as per the targets most countries collectively agreed to) if everyone had access to it We designed systems in which the simple fact of being alive is already not sustainable, it's OK to feel bad about it but you can't really deny it Edit: and out of these 8-9b a good 30% just want a proper shelter, reliable access to clean water and proper nutrition, I don't think it's an outrageous request and I don't see why it upsets your feeling. We're a long way from them requesting American mcmansions with a 4 car garage, 5 hvac units, a jacuzzi, &c.

metalman 1y ago
hmmmm, I think we agree, but I didn't phrase it well, my point is that the worlds consumption is huge, and growing, and that this growth in consumption will be driven by the bottom two thirds, rightly, trying to level up to a place where they see there children and grand children having ....you know, walls and a roof, clean water, and things to smile about..... I have travelled some of the meanest streets in the world, and begrudge no one there hopes for something decent, but I got to those streets, by jet liner, and have rubbed shoulders with some of the worlds wealthiest on the way, living societies contradictions in real time..,it's hard to convey
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
RetroTechie 1y ago
> The hard pill to swallow is that you can be an "hard core environmentalist", "born in a socially aware an progressive family" and still statistically be in the top 10% contributor of co2/pollution, this isn't mutually exclusive at all. Count me in that exact demographic. Pill swallowed - long ago. Still: humanity's dealings are unsustainable, period. The way I see it, there's a few ways out: # Large scale conflict (nukes deployed?), human civilization thrown back to a dark age. Grim, but more sustainable than today! # Technology: 'synthetic' foods, regenerative agriculture, fusion power, etc. It helps, but don't hold your breath. # Get our numbers down. Yeah this is not a popular subject. But the sheer no. of humans is a big part of the problem. # Out of control consumerism, fast fashion etc must be curbed. Starting with the 1..10% wealthiest people looks like low-hanging fruit to me. 'Wild' example: an immediate, worldwide ban on mega-yachts would hurt no-one. # Fossil fuels must go. Attacking all these angles simultaneouly (& co-operating / co-ordinating where possible) is the only way to avert a worldwide chaos/conflict scenario.

ashoeafoot 1y ago

The "as a" dragged on to long stopped reading before the castedeclaration was finished .