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Oh well. When Russian scientists were escaping the horrible realities of Putin's regime, had someone in Europe attempted to "lure" them? No, they were fired by

Oh well. When Russian scientists were escaping the horrible realities of Putin's regime, had someone in Europe attempted to "lure" them? No, they were fired by hundreds [1] and students were not allowed anymore [2]. Not counting the immense indirect pressure like closing their bank accounts and not prolonging their existing residence documents even when they had jobs. When Ukrainian scientists tried to escape the horrible war of aggression and cruelty that Russia brought on them, did someone try to "lure" them in? No, they had some charity help and some temporary programs, but mostly they get "emergency temporary" permits with the condition they have to go home afterwards. These temporary protection measures are now being phased out [3] and many Ukrainian scientists will be shown the door. Now, American scientists are escaping the horrible realities of their regime. But for them, EU is much more friendlier and welcoming. What is the difference? [1] https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/science/cern-to-expel-500-russian-scientists-from-november-30/87643637 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/science/cern-to-expel-500-russi... [2] https://t-invariant.org/2024/12/swiss-cross-on-russian-students-famous-zurich-university-imposes-sanctions-on-them-for-security-reasons/ https://t-invariant.org/2024/12/swiss-cross-on-russian-stude... [3] https://www.icmpd.org/blog/2025/phasing-out-temporary-protection-shaping-eu-policies-through-national-experiences https://www.icmpd.org/blog/2025/phasing-out-temporary-protec...

ascorbic 1y ago
It's quite misleading to refer to them as "escaping the horrible realities of Putin's regime" like they were some kind of defectors, when according to your source they were all working as representatives of Russian labs, and most weren't based at CERN itself. It was the cooperation with the affiliated labs that was terminated. Russian citizens affiliated to non-Russian labs were allowed to stay.
- atemerev 1y ago
  Russia was not a member of CERN, so most Russian physicists worked there on (fake-ish, for documents only) exchange programs with JINR Russia. Most of them were living in France or Switzerland for many years. Given the opportunity, every single one of them would have changed the affiliation, but CERN only agreed to employ them this way (unless they find an actual academic position in an actual European university on a short notice, which is next to impossible). Okay, maybe there were a few actual JINR employees, but that what screening is for. I am a Russian scientist too (not CERN affiliated). I live in a European country since 2005. I donated many thousands dollars to Ukrainian causes, and brought hundreds of thousands of value with donations I organized. Now, my bank account is blocked just for the reason of my nationality, and my residence permit is not being renewed. Meanwhile, Russian oligarchs continue managing shadow fleets from European countries, and exchange millions of dollars freely (e.g. with Raiffeisen bank), and everybody knows that (I am not allowed, of course, to open any bank account, neither in Raiffeisen, not anywhere else in Europe). And many EU countries still pay hundreds of millions for Russian natural gas, and this money directly finance Russian military power. I personally know Ukrainian scientists who lost their temporary protection permits too. Some of them moved back to war-thorn Ukraine, others went to other countries to try their luck there. You can say "well, tough luck". But tough luck will be for many other people. Some Americans are now wondering why they are being turned away, asking "but we never voted for him!" And they weren't indeed. Judging people by their nationality is not good for everyone involved.
  - ascorbic 1y ago
    OK, fair enough. That's certainly a detail missing from the reporting. I don't envy your position.
  - phatfish 1y ago
    It is not good, but it is necessary when a government acts the way the Kremlin does. I'm glad to hear there are serious measures in place. Surely you saw the writing on the wall and could have taken citizenship in your host country? All the signs were there since 2014.
    - atemerev 1y ago
      Oh I would be the most happy person to do it. The writing was on the wall since 2008, and I am painfully aware of it. However, my host country is Switzerland, where if you are not already a EU citizen, you have to live 10 years basically working on the same permanent job before even getting a permanent residence, _without interruptions_, and years in the academia up and including to the postdoc level do not count. Both me and my wife are researchers. Our life was all about academia and interruptions and temporary contracts and travel. And they kept resetting the counter. For _twenty years_. Even though my daughter was born here more than ten years ago, goes to local school, speaks French and never has been in Russia. They don't care. And what I, personally, have to do with what Kremlin is doing? I live in Switzerland since 2005 (and I am as far away from citizenship as when I just came here). I left Russia because I hate authoritarianism and Putin. Last time I even was in Russia (for five days or so) was in 2014, and I noped out of there and vowed never to come there again specifically for that reason, as I have seen the writing on the wall as clearly as anyone else. I always publicly supported Ukraine and donated a lot to her cause, so it is not a good idea to ever go back. And now you are telling me that what is done to me is "necessary", while true perpetrators keep opening their shadow companies and earning money from gas exports to Europe. How come?
      - BrandoElFollito 1y ago
        This is a particularly sad situation. I was often wondering how Russians living in the EU feel being pointed at because of what Putin does. Unfortunately the only Russian I know is a woman living in France for 20 years, married with a French guy and claiming that Russia was attacked and is just defending against agressiin and Nazis. This is sad, I have not talked to her since. You may want to consider France: you speak French, your daughter is integrated with the culture (I guess you are around Geneva), so it may be an easier place to live in.
usrnm 1y ago
> What is the difference? Neither Russia nor Ukraine are currently known for their bleeding-edge scientific research, and I'm saying this as a Russian myself. I'm sorry but almost everyone who was worth their salt left both countries long before 2022.
egisspegis 1y ago
> What is the difference? Maybe the difference is the fact that russia invaded Ukraine and is murdering, raping and pillaging there? Or maybe the fact that most of russian society is actively supporting that invasion? But those are just my opinion. I guess we'll never now what's the difference :)
- atemerev 1y ago
  Well, American society supports Trump, right? and Trump wants to invade Canada and Denmark. No, "Russian society" is not a monolith supporting the war of aggression. Just like American society is not all like their government officials and quite many people there do not support the autocratic course. Though yes, even here on Hacker News you can meet supporters of both. Sadly. Yes, it is alarming that many people in Russia support their government. Just as it is alarming for the US. Or any other autocratic country. This isn't a blanket permission to call "all Russians" or "all Americans" or "all Israeli" or "all Palestinians" or "all immigrants" (insert your pejorative of the day).
  - subscribed 1y ago
    American troops are not raping their way through Canada now, are they? They are not systematically aiming bombs at schools, churches, hospitals? They are not committing the war crimes already[1], are they? They didn't kidnap hundred of thousand of Canadian or Danish people, right? Wth are you on? How is the unhinged and massively unpopular president comparable to the majority of the Russian society consistently showing the support to rape and war crimes? Small minority of the American residents support kidnapping and trafficking of the other residents and citizens. These two are not comparable. [1] unless we add steadfast support for the genocide and war crimes of the Israel, but then we could add all the atrocities Russia supports in Syria and Africa in general.
    - atemerev 1y ago
      Universal quantifiers are not useful in this discussion.
  - 1y ago

ascorbic 1y ago

It's quite misleading to refer to them as "escaping the horrible realities of Putin's regime" like they were some kind of defectors, when according to your source they were all working as representatives of Russian labs, and most weren't based at CERN itself. It was the cooperation with the affiliated labs that was terminated. Russian citizens affiliated to non-Russian labs were allowed to stay.

atemerev 1y ago
Russia was not a member of CERN, so most Russian physicists worked there on (fake-ish, for documents only) exchange programs with JINR Russia. Most of them were living in France or Switzerland for many years. Given the opportunity, every single one of them would have changed the affiliation, but CERN only agreed to employ them this way (unless they find an actual academic position in an actual European university on a short notice, which is next to impossible). Okay, maybe there were a few actual JINR employees, but that what screening is for. I am a Russian scientist too (not CERN affiliated). I live in a European country since 2005. I donated many thousands dollars to Ukrainian causes, and brought hundreds of thousands of value with donations I organized. Now, my bank account is blocked just for the reason of my nationality, and my residence permit is not being renewed. Meanwhile, Russian oligarchs continue managing shadow fleets from European countries, and exchange millions of dollars freely (e.g. with Raiffeisen bank), and everybody knows that (I am not allowed, of course, to open any bank account, neither in Raiffeisen, not anywhere else in Europe). And many EU countries still pay hundreds of millions for Russian natural gas, and this money directly finance Russian military power. I personally know Ukrainian scientists who lost their temporary protection permits too. Some of them moved back to war-thorn Ukraine, others went to other countries to try their luck there. You can say "well, tough luck". But tough luck will be for many other people. Some Americans are now wondering why they are being turned away, asking "but we never voted for him!" And they weren't indeed. Judging people by their nationality is not good for everyone involved.
- ascorbic 1y ago
  OK, fair enough. That's certainly a detail missing from the reporting. I don't envy your position.
- phatfish 1y ago
  It is not good, but it is necessary when a government acts the way the Kremlin does. I'm glad to hear there are serious measures in place. Surely you saw the writing on the wall and could have taken citizenship in your host country? All the signs were there since 2014.
  - atemerev 1y ago
    Oh I would be the most happy person to do it. The writing was on the wall since 2008, and I am painfully aware of it. However, my host country is Switzerland, where if you are not already a EU citizen, you have to live 10 years basically working on the same permanent job before even getting a permanent residence, _without interruptions_, and years in the academia up and including to the postdoc level do not count. Both me and my wife are researchers. Our life was all about academia and interruptions and temporary contracts and travel. And they kept resetting the counter. For _twenty years_. Even though my daughter was born here more than ten years ago, goes to local school, speaks French and never has been in Russia. They don't care. And what I, personally, have to do with what Kremlin is doing? I live in Switzerland since 2005 (and I am as far away from citizenship as when I just came here). I left Russia because I hate authoritarianism and Putin. Last time I even was in Russia (for five days or so) was in 2014, and I noped out of there and vowed never to come there again specifically for that reason, as I have seen the writing on the wall as clearly as anyone else. I always publicly supported Ukraine and donated a lot to her cause, so it is not a good idea to ever go back. And now you are telling me that what is done to me is "necessary", while true perpetrators keep opening their shadow companies and earning money from gas exports to Europe. How come?
    - BrandoElFollito 1y ago
      This is a particularly sad situation. I was often wondering how Russians living in the EU feel being pointed at because of what Putin does. Unfortunately the only Russian I know is a woman living in France for 20 years, married with a French guy and claiming that Russia was attacked and is just defending against agressiin and Nazis. This is sad, I have not talked to her since. You may want to consider France: you speak French, your daughter is integrated with the culture (I guess you are around Geneva), so it may be an easier place to live in.

usrnm 1y ago

> What is the difference? Neither Russia nor Ukraine are currently known for their bleeding-edge scientific research, and I'm saying this as a Russian myself. I'm sorry but almost everyone who was worth their salt left both countries long before 2022.

egisspegis 1y ago

> What is the difference? Maybe the difference is the fact that russia invaded Ukraine and is murdering, raping and pillaging there? Or maybe the fact that most of russian society is actively supporting that invasion? But those are just my opinion. I guess we'll never now what's the difference :)

atemerev 1y ago
Well, American society supports Trump, right? and Trump wants to invade Canada and Denmark. No, "Russian society" is not a monolith supporting the war of aggression. Just like American society is not all like their government officials and quite many people there do not support the autocratic course. Though yes, even here on Hacker News you can meet supporters of both. Sadly. Yes, it is alarming that many people in Russia support their government. Just as it is alarming for the US. Or any other autocratic country. This isn't a blanket permission to call "all Russians" or "all Americans" or "all Israeli" or "all Palestinians" or "all immigrants" (insert your pejorative of the day).
- subscribed 1y ago
  American troops are not raping their way through Canada now, are they? They are not systematically aiming bombs at schools, churches, hospitals? They are not committing the war crimes already[1], are they? They didn't kidnap hundred of thousand of Canadian or Danish people, right? Wth are you on? How is the unhinged and massively unpopular president comparable to the majority of the Russian society consistently showing the support to rape and war crimes? Small minority of the American residents support kidnapping and trafficking of the other residents and citizens. These two are not comparable. [1] unless we add steadfast support for the genocide and war crimes of the Israel, but then we could add all the atrocities Russia supports in Syria and Africa in general.
  - atemerev 1y ago
    Universal quantifiers are not useful in this discussion.
- 1y ago