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"Alcohol use disorder" recalls George Carlin on the evolution of language: "In this classic George Carlin routine, the legendary comedian breaks down how langu

"Alcohol use disorder" recalls George Carlin on the evolution of language: "In this classic George Carlin routine, the legendary comedian breaks down how language has been systematically softened over time. From "shell shock" to "battle fatigue" and eventually to "post-traumatic stress disorder," Carlin illustrates how our words have become more complex and less impactful. He argues that Americans have difficulty facing harsh realities and have developed a tendency to euphemize, making the truth sound less direct. Through his sharp wit and astute observations, Carlin explores how language evolves to disguise the true nature of our experiences, particularly in times of war." https://youtu.be/Me-sGTBhGFc?si=i-VjINRlDhP4xxgN https://youtu.be/Me-sGTBhGFc?si=i-VjINRlDhP4xxgN

2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
Meh, Carlin doesn't land the same way in my 30s that he did in my 20s. It changed from shell shock to battle fatigue to PTSD because you can get it without battle (IED) or being shelled by artillery. It lacks oomph but it's more correct imo.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  It’s a comedy bit. It’s deliberately not very nuanced. I like Carlin a lot but he got a little too negative and political towards the end for my taste.
xyzzy123 1y ago
The great thing about calling it "alcohol use disorder" is that it lets you diagnose more people. If you're a nonprofit or advocacy group, "alcoholics" are only going to get you so far in terms of funding, also dealing with them is messy and incredibly difficult. If you can shift the overton window on whats considered "problematic" drinking you get to "educate" people and get funding for things which have fewer hard criteria or measurable outcomes than treating actual alcoholics. This keeps the money flowing.
- Alupis 1y ago
  If it's a disorder, then it's "not your fault", it's something that's "happened to you". It removes personal liability from the choices we make.
  - d1sxeyes 1y ago
    Would you also argue that type 2 diabetes is not a disorder? Or that anorexia/bulimia are not disorders? Or that COPD is not a disorder? It might be worth re-examining your understanding of the word disorder, because the world has moved on a bit.
- arp242 1y ago
  God forbid they're looking at patterns of alcohol abuse that falls outside a narrow preconceived scope. "Alcoholism denial" was not what I expected to see when I woke up this morning, but here we are. This is just conspiracy logic with no evidence that you fashioned yourself out of nothing but ugly cynicism and contrarianism.
  - hn_user82179 1y ago
    I'm glad there's a voice of reason here (and one who put it much better than I could have). I'm failing to see the downside of being able to describe people who have alcohol dependencies that negatively impact their life without being "alcoholics" which is such a weighty term that I think makes people resistant to diagnosis.
- ab5tract 1y ago
  People think of “alcoholism” as a binary. It’s not, and the new language reflects this. We absolutely should educate “problematic” drinkers that they are on a sliding slope to an ungroovy dependency. It also highlights that just because you were classifiable as AUD, you won’t necessarily be so classifiable for the rest of your life. The language of alcoholism often mirrors sermons of eternal damnation. Not a particularly inspiring starting point for treatment and a big reason why most people who succeed in getting past AUD don’t do it in groups that preach this eternal damnation angle.
franciscop 1y ago
> "language [...] Americans have difficulty facing harsh realities" This makes it sound like it's an American/Western phenomena, where it's definitely not (only there). It's a recurring joke among me and my friends in Japan to say "the moon is beautiful tonight" because in true Japanese culture that's a way to say "I love you". Though OTOH Spanish went the opposite direction, where my Mexican friends say some times more swear words in a sentence than normal words; but they've become meaningless or softer.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
squigz 1y ago
> language has been systematically softened over time. From "shell shock" to "battle fatigue" and eventually to "post-traumatic stress disorder," This is literally just called "learning more about the condition" - it's not some deep symbolic neutering of language by the dang liberals. Imagine someone having PTSD from combat in which a single shell was never launched, and being like "Yeah, they've got shell shock" ???
arp242 1y ago
He was just wrong here. PTSD covers many problems, including "shell shock", but also survivors of, say, natural disasters, serious accidents, sexual abuse, and many other types of traumatic experiences. And this is hardly an "American" thing; all societies do this sort of thing (although topics and methods vary). Carlin's views, like many Americans, were extremely centred on the US and seemed quite clueless about the rest of the world.

2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago

Meh, Carlin doesn't land the same way in my 30s that he did in my 20s. It changed from shell shock to battle fatigue to PTSD because you can get it without battle (IED) or being shelled by artillery. It lacks oomph but it's more correct imo.

SoftTalker 1y ago
It’s a comedy bit. It’s deliberately not very nuanced. I like Carlin a lot but he got a little too negative and political towards the end for my taste.

xyzzy123 1y ago

The great thing about calling it "alcohol use disorder" is that it lets you diagnose more people. If you're a nonprofit or advocacy group, "alcoholics" are only going to get you so far in terms of funding, also dealing with them is messy and incredibly difficult. If you can shift the overton window on whats considered "problematic" drinking you get to "educate" people and get funding for things which have fewer hard criteria or measurable outcomes than treating actual alcoholics. This keeps the money flowing.

Alupis 1y ago
If it's a disorder, then it's "not your fault", it's something that's "happened to you". It removes personal liability from the choices we make.
- d1sxeyes 1y ago
  Would you also argue that type 2 diabetes is not a disorder? Or that anorexia/bulimia are not disorders? Or that COPD is not a disorder? It might be worth re-examining your understanding of the word disorder, because the world has moved on a bit.
arp242 1y ago
God forbid they're looking at patterns of alcohol abuse that falls outside a narrow preconceived scope. "Alcoholism denial" was not what I expected to see when I woke up this morning, but here we are. This is just conspiracy logic with no evidence that you fashioned yourself out of nothing but ugly cynicism and contrarianism.
- hn_user82179 1y ago
  I'm glad there's a voice of reason here (and one who put it much better than I could have). I'm failing to see the downside of being able to describe people who have alcohol dependencies that negatively impact their life without being "alcoholics" which is such a weighty term that I think makes people resistant to diagnosis.
ab5tract 1y ago
People think of “alcoholism” as a binary. It’s not, and the new language reflects this. We absolutely should educate “problematic” drinkers that they are on a sliding slope to an ungroovy dependency. It also highlights that just because you were classifiable as AUD, you won’t necessarily be so classifiable for the rest of your life. The language of alcoholism often mirrors sermons of eternal damnation. Not a particularly inspiring starting point for treatment and a big reason why most people who succeed in getting past AUD don’t do it in groups that preach this eternal damnation angle.

franciscop 1y ago

> "language [...] Americans have difficulty facing harsh realities" This makes it sound like it's an American/Western phenomena, where it's definitely not (only there). It's a recurring joke among me and my friends in Japan to say "the moon is beautiful tonight" because in true Japanese culture that's a way to say "I love you". Though OTOH Spanish went the opposite direction, where my Mexican friends say some times more swear words in a sentence than normal words; but they've become meaningless or softer.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

squigz 1y ago

> language has been systematically softened over time. From "shell shock" to "battle fatigue" and eventually to "post-traumatic stress disorder," This is literally just called "learning more about the condition" - it's not some deep symbolic neutering of language by the dang liberals. Imagine someone having PTSD from combat in which a single shell was never launched, and being like "Yeah, they've got shell shock" ???

arp242 1y ago

He was just wrong here. PTSD covers many problems, including "shell shock", but also survivors of, say, natural disasters, serious accidents, sexual abuse, and many other types of traumatic experiences. And this is hardly an "American" thing; all societies do this sort of thing (although topics and methods vary). Carlin's views, like many Americans, were extremely centred on the US and seemed quite clueless about the rest of the world.