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> some of the difference here is just perception due to dependencies in C/C++ being less immediately visible since they're dynamically loaded. Not in my case.

by palata 2y ago

> some of the difference here is just perception due to dependencies in C/C++ being less immediately visible since they're dynamically loaded. Not in my case. I manually compile all the dependencies (either because I need to cross-compile, or because I may need to patch them, etc). So I clearly see all the transitive dependencies I need in C++. And I need a lot less than in Rust, by a long shot.

elabajaba 2y ago
Part of the rust dependency issue is that the compiler only multithreads at the crate level currently (slowly being improved on nightly, but there's still some bugs before they can roll out the parallel compiler), so most libraries split themselves up into a ton of small crates because otherwise they just take too long to compile. edit: Also, `cargo-vet` is useful for distributed auditing of crates. There's also `cargo-crev`, but afaik it doesn't have buy in from the megacorps like cargo-vet and last I checked didn't have as many/as consistent reviews. https://github.com/mozilla/cargo-vet https://github.com/mozilla/cargo-vet https://github.com/crev-dev/cargo-crev https://github.com/crev-dev/cargo-crev
- zahlman 2y ago
  > so most libraries split themselves up into a ton of small crates because otherwise they just take too long to compile. In practice, does this make it feasible to pick and choose the pieces you actually need?
  - simonask 2y ago
    Yes, when done properly. Rust has "feature flags" that can selectively enable dependencies, and effectively act as `#ifdef` guards in the code.
  - Measter 2y ago
    It can do. Additionally, because each part is now smaller it's now easier to ensure that each part, in isolation, does what it says on the tin. It also means that other projects can reuse the parts. An example of the last point would be the Regex crate. Regex is split into subcrates, one of which is regex-syntax: the parser. But that crate is also a dependency of over 150 other crates, including lalrpop, proptest, treesitter, and polars. So other projects have benefited from Regex being split up.
- zavec 2y ago
  Can't believe I'd never heard of cargo vet before, that sounds really promising!

by palata 2y ago

elabajaba 2y ago

Part of the rust dependency issue is that the compiler only multithreads at the crate level currently (slowly being improved on nightly, but there's still some bugs before they can roll out the parallel compiler), so most libraries split themselves up into a ton of small crates because otherwise they just take too long to compile. edit: Also, `cargo-vet` is useful for distributed auditing of crates. There's also `cargo-crev`, but afaik it doesn't have buy in from the megacorps like cargo-vet and last I checked didn't have as many/as consistent reviews. https://github.com/mozilla/cargo-vet https://github.com/mozilla/cargo-vet https://github.com/crev-dev/cargo-crev https://github.com/crev-dev/cargo-crev

zahlman 2y ago
> so most libraries split themselves up into a ton of small crates because otherwise they just take too long to compile. In practice, does this make it feasible to pick and choose the pieces you actually need?
- simonask 2y ago
  Yes, when done properly. Rust has "feature flags" that can selectively enable dependencies, and effectively act as `#ifdef` guards in the code.
- Measter 2y ago
  It can do. Additionally, because each part is now smaller it's now easier to ensure that each part, in isolation, does what it says on the tin. It also means that other projects can reuse the parts. An example of the last point would be the Regex crate. Regex is split into subcrates, one of which is regex-syntax: the parser. But that crate is also a dependency of over 150 other crates, including lalrpop, proptest, treesitter, and polars. So other projects have benefited from Regex being split up.
zavec 2y ago
Can't believe I'd never heard of cargo vet before, that sounds really promising!