5 ms·

> Why is there no widespread concern or consternation about what the 1998 movie ‘enemy of the state’ predicted to happen? It's more accurate to get your worldv

> Why is there no widespread concern or consternation about what the 1998 movie ‘enemy of the state’ predicted to happen? It's more accurate to get your worldview from actual history than Hollywood movies.

tombert 1y ago
Ok, well historically when people have been disappeared by governments, it's considered "bad". Stalin painting out pictures of Trotsky is generally frowned upon. Movies are a cultural shorthand.
realo 1y ago
[flagged]
- robertlagrant 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - pstuart 1y ago
    I beg to differ. And Socialism presents zero threat to the republic these days, while fascism is unfolding daily
    - robertlagrant 1y ago
      > And Socialism presents zero threat to the republic these days, while fascism is unfolding daily I think if you're saying "current administration bad" then fine, but that doesn't seem to be to do with this topic. I'm saying you could say "current administration acting like the USSR" and achieve the same thing with the same list, is my point.
  - soco 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - robertlagrant 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - AnonymousPlanet 1y ago
      Socialism gave us Walter Ulbricht, Erich Honecker and a wall splitting the country. The 5 days working week was introduced in the West in 1965 under a conservative government. It took 2 years longer for the socialist East to do the same. A 40 hours week was never achieved by Socialism but was only introduced after reunification. The word Socialism might not mean the same for everyone. Edit: Before you downvote read Webster's definition I posted further down. To be clear, I don't believe the conservative government of Ludwig Erhard would have introduced the 40 hours week out of their own good will. You can read about the union's campaign here: https://www.planet-wissen.de/geschichte/deutsche_geschichte/wirtschaftswunder/pwiewissensfrage398.html https://www.planet-wissen.de/geschichte/deutsche_geschichte/...
      - throw0101d 1y ago
        > The 5 days working week was introduced in the West in 1965 under a conservative government. And the government just decided to do that out of the kindness of their hearts? There was years/decades of agitation and pressure by labour to bring the idea to the forefront of people's thought. > The rallying cry of the 19th-century labor movement was “Eight hours labor, eight hours recreation, eight hours rest,” a phrase first coined by Robert Owen, a Welsh textile manufacturer turned labor reformer. […] > The next big push came on May 1, 1886, when Chicago unions and political activists called for a nationwide “May Day” strike for the 8-hour day. More than 10,000 people gathered in Chicago for what was supposed to be a peaceful demonstration. Tensions escalated between strikers and police, resulting in the death of four demonstrators. In response, rioters and anarchists took to the streets on May 4, a violent clash that ended with a deadly bombing in Chicago’s Haymarket Square. * https://www.history.com/articles/five-day-work-week-labor-movement https://www.history.com/articles/five-day-work-week-labor-mo... In the US, Labor Day is in September, but for the rest of the world it is called May Day and celebrated on May 1, which was decided at the Second International socialist conference: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_International https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_International * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day
  - energywut 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - fifilura 1y ago
      The problem as I see it is that Americans define socialists as "anyone that is not MAGA". A lot thanks to a successful campaign by the orange man. Socialism as in Soviet, East Europe and 20th century China was most things bad. Including racists and whatever. Socialists as you define them are mostly just like a big chunk of regular europeans.
    - robertlagrant 1y ago
      [flagged]
- DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - dttze 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
      Not really. Umberto Enco's original 14 points were alreay quite questionable, but the author of this hot take altered them beyond recognition. There is a reason the author linked to a paywall instead of a freely available copy. Just read it yourself: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fasci... I skipped over some points, not because they're hard to dismiss per se, but because them being intellectually honest makes them hard to dismiss.
  - cauch 1y ago
    But what the list gives are the particularities of fascism. Your first list is way too broad and does not capture the particularities that makes fascism different from other kinds of dictatorship. The second list is obviously a ridiculous take, and it is also a good illustration of the hypocrisy that we find too often in these discussion. "Nowadays, all the wokes are saying that everything is racist" followed that "someone pointed that usually in fascist movements, we find appeals to a cult of tradition, so this person is a bad person that says that everyone who like Christmas is a fascist". There is a big big spectrum of possibilities between "liking Christmas" and "appeal to a cult of tradition". Plenty of people like Christmas and yet it is impossible to find in their ideology an appeal to a cult of tradition.
    - DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
      > Your first list is way too broad and does not capture the particularities that makes fascism different from other kinds of dictatorship. Fair, but tbh, I'd categorize fascism mostly by the combination of Syndicalism and the nationalist approach to overthrowing capitalism. > The second list is obviously a ridiculous take Yes, because this author's points were ridiculous, cut up beyond recognition to fit the author's political agenda. SmolLM-135M would have done a more decent job summing up the original 14 points speech. And even some of the points in the original speech were ridiculous. Like: "Since even sex is a difficult game to play, the Ur-Fascist hero tends to play with weapons, doing so becomes an ersatz phallic exercise."
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Yeul 1y ago
Anyone who spent an hour reading US history learns about the racism, xenophobia and jingoism that has been part of American society since the first pilgrims got off the ship. The only difference is that the American elite is now in on it too. For whatever reasons I do not know.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

tombert 1y ago

Ok, well historically when people have been disappeared by governments, it's considered "bad". Stalin painting out pictures of Trotsky is generally frowned upon. Movies are a cultural shorthand.

realo 1y ago

[flagged]

robertlagrant 1y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- pstuart 1y ago
  I beg to differ. And Socialism presents zero threat to the republic these days, while fascism is unfolding daily
  - robertlagrant 1y ago
    > And Socialism presents zero threat to the republic these days, while fascism is unfolding daily I think if you're saying "current administration bad" then fine, but that doesn't seem to be to do with this topic. I'm saying you could say "current administration acting like the USSR" and achieve the same thing with the same list, is my point.
- soco 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - robertlagrant 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - AnonymousPlanet 1y ago
    Socialism gave us Walter Ulbricht, Erich Honecker and a wall splitting the country. The 5 days working week was introduced in the West in 1965 under a conservative government. It took 2 years longer for the socialist East to do the same. A 40 hours week was never achieved by Socialism but was only introduced after reunification. The word Socialism might not mean the same for everyone. Edit: Before you downvote read Webster's definition I posted further down. To be clear, I don't believe the conservative government of Ludwig Erhard would have introduced the 40 hours week out of their own good will. You can read about the union's campaign here: https://www.planet-wissen.de/geschichte/deutsche_geschichte/wirtschaftswunder/pwiewissensfrage398.html https://www.planet-wissen.de/geschichte/deutsche_geschichte/...
    - throw0101d 1y ago
      > The 5 days working week was introduced in the West in 1965 under a conservative government. And the government just decided to do that out of the kindness of their hearts? There was years/decades of agitation and pressure by labour to bring the idea to the forefront of people's thought. > The rallying cry of the 19th-century labor movement was “Eight hours labor, eight hours recreation, eight hours rest,” a phrase first coined by Robert Owen, a Welsh textile manufacturer turned labor reformer. […] > The next big push came on May 1, 1886, when Chicago unions and political activists called for a nationwide “May Day” strike for the 8-hour day. More than 10,000 people gathered in Chicago for what was supposed to be a peaceful demonstration. Tensions escalated between strikers and police, resulting in the death of four demonstrators. In response, rioters and anarchists took to the streets on May 4, a violent clash that ended with a deadly bombing in Chicago’s Haymarket Square. * https://www.history.com/articles/five-day-work-week-labor-movement https://www.history.com/articles/five-day-work-week-labor-mo... In the US, Labor Day is in September, but for the rest of the world it is called May Day and celebrated on May 1, which was decided at the Second International socialist conference: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_International https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_International * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day
- energywut 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - fifilura 1y ago
    The problem as I see it is that Americans define socialists as "anyone that is not MAGA". A lot thanks to a successful campaign by the orange man. Socialism as in Soviet, East Europe and 20th century China was most things bad. Including racists and whatever. Socialists as you define them are mostly just like a big chunk of regular europeans.
  - robertlagrant 1y ago
    [flagged]
DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
[flagged]
- dttze 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
    Not really. Umberto Enco's original 14 points were alreay quite questionable, but the author of this hot take altered them beyond recognition. There is a reason the author linked to a paywall instead of a freely available copy. Just read it yourself: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fasci... I skipped over some points, not because they're hard to dismiss per se, but because them being intellectually honest makes them hard to dismiss.
- cauch 1y ago
  But what the list gives are the particularities of fascism. Your first list is way too broad and does not capture the particularities that makes fascism different from other kinds of dictatorship. The second list is obviously a ridiculous take, and it is also a good illustration of the hypocrisy that we find too often in these discussion. "Nowadays, all the wokes are saying that everything is racist" followed that "someone pointed that usually in fascist movements, we find appeals to a cult of tradition, so this person is a bad person that says that everyone who like Christmas is a fascist". There is a big big spectrum of possibilities between "liking Christmas" and "appeal to a cult of tradition". Plenty of people like Christmas and yet it is impossible to find in their ideology an appeal to a cult of tradition.
  - DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago
    > Your first list is way too broad and does not capture the particularities that makes fascism different from other kinds of dictatorship. Fair, but tbh, I'd categorize fascism mostly by the combination of Syndicalism and the nationalist approach to overthrowing capitalism. > The second list is obviously a ridiculous take Yes, because this author's points were ridiculous, cut up beyond recognition to fit the author's political agenda. SmolLM-135M would have done a more decent job summing up the original 14 points speech. And even some of the points in the original speech were ridiculous. Like: "Since even sex is a difficult game to play, the Ur-Fascist hero tends to play with weapons, doing so becomes an ersatz phallic exercise."
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

Yeul 1y ago

Anyone who spent an hour reading US history learns about the racism, xenophobia and jingoism that has been part of American society since the first pilgrims got off the ship. The only difference is that the American elite is now in on it too. For whatever reasons I do not know.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]