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This can happen to anyone. Why is there no widespread concern or consternation about what the 1998 movie ‘enemy of the state’ predicted to happen?
by sherdil2022 1y ago
This can happen to anyone. Why is there no widespread concern or consternation about what the 1998 movie ‘enemy of the state’ predicted to happen?
- EnPissant 1y ago> Why is there no widespread concern or consternation about what the 1998 movie ‘enemy of the state’ predicted to happen? It's more accurate to get your worldview from actual history than Hollywood movies.
- tombert 1y agoOk, well historically when people have been disappeared by governments, it's considered "bad". Stalin painting out pictures of Trotsky is generally frowned upon. Movies are a cultural shorthand.
- realo 1y ago[flagged]
- robertlagrant 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- pstuart 1y agoI beg to differ. And Socialism presents zero threat to the republic these days, while fascism is unfolding daily
- robertlagrant 1y ago> And Socialism presents zero threat to the republic these days, while fascism is unfolding daily I think if you're saying "current administration bad" then fine, but that doesn't seem to be to do with this topic. I'm saying you could say "current administration acting like the USSR" and achieve the same thing with the same list, is my point.
- soco 1y ago[flagged]
- robertlagrant 1y ago[flagged]
- AnonymousPlanet 1y agoSocialism gave us Walter Ulbricht, Erich Honecker and a wall splitting the country. The 5 days working week was introduced in the West in 1965 under a conservative government. It took 2 years longer for the socialist East to do the same. A 40 hours week was never achieved by Socialism but was only introduced after reunification. The word Socialism might not mean the same for everyone. Edit: Before you downvote read Webster's definition I posted further down. To be clear, I don't believe the conservative government of Ludwig Erhard would have introduced the 40 hours week out of their own good will. You can read about the union's campaign here: https://www.planet-wissen.de/geschichte/deutsche_geschichte/wirtschaftswunder/pwiewissensfrage398.html https://www.planet-wissen.de/geschichte/deutsche_geschichte/...
- throw0101d 1y ago> The 5 days working week was introduced in the West in 1965 under a conservative government. And the government just decided to do that out of the kindness of their hearts? There was years/decades of agitation and pressure by labour to bring the idea to the forefront of people's thought. > The rallying cry of the 19th-century labor movement was “Eight hours labor, eight hours recreation, eight hours rest,” a phrase first coined by Robert Owen, a Welsh textile manufacturer turned labor reformer. […] > The next big push came on May 1, 1886, when Chicago unions and political activists called for a nationwide “May Day” strike for the 8-hour day. More than 10,000 people gathered in Chicago for what was supposed to be a peaceful demonstration. Tensions escalated between strikers and police, resulting in the death of four demonstrators. In response, rioters and anarchists took to the streets on May 4, a violent clash that ended with a deadly bombing in Chicago’s Haymarket Square. * https://www.history.com/articles/five-day-work-week-labor-movement https://www.history.com/articles/five-day-work-week-labor-mo... In the US, Labor Day is in September, but for the rest of the world it is called May Day and celebrated on May 1, which was decided at the Second International socialist conference: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_International https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_International * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Workers%27_Day
- energywut 1y ago[flagged]
- DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago[flagged]
- fifilura 1y agoThe problem as I see it is that Americans define socialists as "anyone that is not MAGA". A lot thanks to a successful campaign by the orange man. Socialism as in Soviet, East Europe and 20th century China was most things bad. Including racists and whatever. Socialists as you define them are mostly just like a big chunk of regular europeans.
- robertlagrant 1y ago[flagged]
- DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago[flagged]
- dttze 1y ago[flagged]
- DeepSeaTortoise 1y agoNot really. Umberto Enco's original 14 points were alreay quite questionable, but the author of this hot take altered them beyond recognition. There is a reason the author linked to a paywall instead of a freely available copy. Just read it yourself: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fasci... I skipped over some points, not because they're hard to dismiss per se, but because them being intellectually honest makes them hard to dismiss.
- cauch 1y agoBut what the list gives are the particularities of fascism. Your first list is way too broad and does not capture the particularities that makes fascism different from other kinds of dictatorship. The second list is obviously a ridiculous take, and it is also a good illustration of the hypocrisy that we find too often in these discussion. "Nowadays, all the wokes are saying that everything is racist" followed that "someone pointed that usually in fascist movements, we find appeals to a cult of tradition, so this person is a bad person that says that everyone who like Christmas is a fascist". There is a big big spectrum of possibilities between "liking Christmas" and "appeal to a cult of tradition". Plenty of people like Christmas and yet it is impossible to find in their ideology an appeal to a cult of tradition.
- DeepSeaTortoise 1y ago> Your first list is way too broad and does not capture the particularities that makes fascism different from other kinds of dictatorship. Fair, but tbh, I'd categorize fascism mostly by the combination of Syndicalism and the nationalist approach to overthrowing capitalism. > The second list is obviously a ridiculous take Yes, because this author's points were ridiculous, cut up beyond recognition to fit the author's political agenda. SmolLM-135M would have done a more decent job summing up the original 14 points speech. And even some of the points in the original speech were ridiculous. Like: "Since even sex is a difficult game to play, the Ur-Fascist hero tends to play with weapons, doing so becomes an ersatz phallic exercise."
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Yeul 1y agoAnyone who spent an hour reading US history learns about the racism, xenophobia and jingoism that has been part of American society since the first pilgrims got off the ship. The only difference is that the American elite is now in on it too. For whatever reasons I do not know.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- wizzwizz4 1y agoThere is widespread concern. It's just not reported, because that's not a news story. If you're in the US, get together with your local community and do something about this (e.g. establish / repurpose a neighbourhood watch), before it's too late.
- dragonwriter 1y ago> There is widespread concern. It's just not reported, because that's not a news story. No, it is annews story, and widepsread concerns are often reported on; its not widely reported on because the media is a mix of institutiins which tend to be either in support of the Administration doing it or in fear of being targeted in retaliation for reporting on topics like that.
- EnPissant 1y ago> its not widely reported on because the media is a mix of institutiins which tend to be either in support of the Administration doing it or in fear of being targeted in retaliation for reporting on topics like that. Here is a list of major news media outlets from Wikipedia[1]. Which of the following do you think either supports the current administration or fears being targeted by it? ABC News, CBS News, CNN, Fox News Channel, MSNBC, NBC News, The New York Times, USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Politico, Bloomberg, Vice News, HBO, HuffPost, TMZ, CNET, NPR, The Hollywood Reporter, Newsweek, The New Yorker, Time , U.S. News & World Report [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_media_in_the_United_States#Major_commercial_outlets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_media_in_the_United_State...
- sorcerer-mar 1y agoFox News supports and many of the others fear being targeted by it, some are a bit in between like Washington Post and LA Times (billionaire owners sucking up to the dictator, as is tradition when such regimes rise to power) Unless you think threats of DOJ investigation, pulling broadcast licenses, or extremely expensive lawsuits don't produce fear? In that case you should let authoritarians know their playbook is out of date. Of course it's not, which is why authoritarians follow such a distinct pattern.
- bonestamp2 1y agoNot to mention... why don't they want to bring him back? It took awhile for them to come out with a reason so is that the real reason, or is that an excuse because he's no longer alive? Very scary either way.
- pstuart 1y ago> why don't they want to bring him back Because that would demonstrate weakness and accountability. This is a trial run and they have big plans for this. Note that the courts have blocked this and thus far been ignored.
- chneu 1y agoThis administration is petrified of admitting a mistake. No matter how small.
- sjducb 1y agoTrump wants to deport a few million people. You can’t do that while following the rule of law. The hearings and appeals take too much time and money. This is why they’re not trying to fix mistakes. Once you set a precedent of allowing appeals everyone will want one. Trump is using ICE to create a parallel legal system where people have no rights. This is exactly what early (1933) Nazi Germany was like.
- dataflow 1y ago> This can happen to anyone. Why is there no widespread concern or consternation I don't actually think the majority of the population believes this could happen to them. Furthermore, a huge portion of the population is very deliberately tuning out what they find to be depressing news. Though I'm not sure you're correct about the lack of widespread concern regardless.
- bborud 1y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came
- nslacl 1y ago[flagged]
- soco 1y agoThe January 6 mob was given due trial even though the charges were way heavier than gang membership. So your point is...?
- minecraft001 1y ago[flagged]
- cbg0 1y agoNothing happened, huh? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZHDpk6Cqnw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZHDpk6Cqnw
- DeepSeaTortoise 1y agoCorrect. It's perfectly normal to be kept in solitary confinement for years before being given a trial.
- UncleMeat 1y agoUnfortunately, it is. Kalief Browder was kept largely in solitary for more than two years for allegedly stealing a backpack. If you want to help with the fight to get these sorts of egregious treatments (especially pre-trial) recognized as violations of the 6th and 8th amendments, join to the fight to win back the courts from conservatives.
- m3rc 1y agoIs this the best use of your time?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- anigbrowl 1y ago~30-35% of people like this sort of thing because it makes them feel powerful by proxy. ~20% are fatalists who think there's nothing you can do about it and just want to keep their head down and out of trouble. Maybe 20% are naive people who don't get it and another 20% are hand-wringers who don't know what to do about it. Fewer than 20% are able to comprehend, speak out, and organize against it and it's hard for them to make their voices heard enough to build a coalition that outnumbers the first group.
- ndsipa_pomu 1y agoIf people don't think that their voices will be heard, then surely action is required instead. From the outside, it looks like there's a few protests, but nothing particularly decisive. To my mind, the next step is rioting, although that will likely lead to martial law being imposed. However, it looks to me like ICE agents are pretty much acting like martial law has been declared.
- wizzwizz4 1y ago[flagged]
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 1y agoOk. I don't say it very often that is some ridiculously bad advice. Technically, it is also a call to vandalism. I urge those reading this and considering parent's words in good faith to think thrice before engaging in summer of love 2.
- wizzwizz4 1y agoYou mean Summer of Love 3? We've already had Summer of Love 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Summer_of_Love https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Summer_of_Love My point wasn't "you should do this specific vandalism". My point was "if you're breaking the law, you might as well be smart about it". Damaging an enemy's car in an obvious way, to keep them from getting to work (without putting them at risk), is more effective than burning some random, unaffiliated storefront. I originally said "slash" because (if you're carrying a sharp thing) it's quicker and easier than "deflate" – but I wasn't taking my own advice. Turning intact tyres into hazardous waste is suboptimal, and property damage that isn't necessary is a failure to de-escalate. (Besides that: carrying a knife seems unnecessarily risky. Which headline is better? "ICE agents defend themselves against knife-wielding activist", or "Possession of lentils now a crime"?)
- tialaramex 1y ago"Ooh you should be concerned" made sense in October 2024. Since January 2020 when Americans accepted "OK, we're making the fascist leader the head of our army" there's no value in "consternation" the thing you want is a plan to leave. At first this can be quite structured and casual like, I should look for life opportunities abroad. Ooh, I quite like France and this outfit in Brittany are hiring in my field, I will apply and see what happens. Gradually leaving becomes more urgent, and eventually you should focus just on getting over the border even if you don't have specific plans for where you'll go or what you'll do after that. Countries immediately bordering a fascist state often don't have a lot of patience for refugees, but, hey, at least you're out.
- wizzwizz4 1y agoRegarding fleeing, https://transrescue.org/post-election-assistance-to-the-usa https://transrescue.org/post-election-assistance-to-the-usa has some concrete advice. Fleeing makes sense for people at most risk of persecution (e.g. trans people, Jews, those who speak out), but many people are prevented from fleeing by their consciences. They have to stay and fight. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance#Factions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance#Factions
- tialaramex 1y agoI certainly don't want to condemn the choice to stay and fight. What I can tell you is that many people aren't brave enough to fight, but fleeing is much more possible. If you feel you must fight, you should absolutely do that, but if you can't summon that bravery you should flee, don't allow yourself to become a victim. If your home is on fire, some people will bravely stay and fight the fire, but the instruction we give everybody is to flee, you can get another home, but if you die there's nothing to be done about it, so better flee.
- yehbuttzlivin 1y ago[flagged]
- mvdtnz 1y agoI mean Americans are writing angry comments on internet forums. What more do you want?
- _DeadFred_ 1y agoA list of minor legal frictions that the average person can introduce to slow down the system/increase expenses to the point the government has to go back to caring about larger social consensus on policies.
- K0balt 1y agoYes, please?
- verzali 1y agoA strongly worded letter?
- potato3732842 1y agoWhere was this concern 4, 9, 14, 30yr ago when the groundwork was laid? I mean they made a f-ing hollywood movie about it in 1998, it's not like the potential wasn't foreseen.