4 ms·

I think there should be options for low income residents to ride for free or heavily discounted rates (which exists now). But it's all about implementation: sim

I think there should be options for low income residents to ride for free or heavily discounted rates (which exists now). But it's all about implementation: simply letting anyone jump on turns the system into a madhouse. Making sure everyone pays (even if through a government issued pass) and works with the system helps balance equity considerations with maintaining safety and cleanliness.

SllX 1y ago
BART has several discounts: https://www.bart.gov/tickets/discounts https://www.bart.gov/tickets/discounts Discounts are fine. Free riding isn’t.
- edoceo 1y ago
  Why is free public transport bad? Could get even more folk out of their cars, or expand employment opportunities.
  - omnimus 1y ago
    Because socialism.
  - SllX 1y ago
    I answered more thoroughly in response to your sibling comment.
  - bethekidyouwant 1y ago
    Because the tube will be filled with the unwashed masses
  - ianburrell 1y ago
    The price is not the barrier for most people using transit. The service reliability and availability is more important. Would you rather pay fare for frequent bus or wait around for free fares?
  - Spooky23 1y ago
    Because people are people. You won’t be able to get on the train to commute when people are sleeping there. People don’t value free things, and it’s hard to plan things without pricing demand.
  - darth_avocado 1y ago
    Because people in America have being taught to think that way. Plenty of countries run free (or near free) public transit just fine.
- myrmidon 1y ago
  > Discounts are fine. Free riding isn’t. Why not? Could you not make a pretty strong argument that avoided negative externalities (CO2 and air pollution from car engines and tires) make public transport worthwhile by itself, and just fund transport by taxing those (gas/cars)? Saves you all the infrastructure for billing/access control and some enforcement, too.
  - SllX 1y ago
    1) it’s a funding source for transit agencies which are already facing shortfalls and at the mercy of voters for any tax increases or bonds. 2) we want public transit to be exclusionary on a fee-basis to exclude people who generally will not be able to pay for it on their own in order to avoid tragedy of the commons situations which actually suppress ridership by people who can afford to pay the fee: vagrants, criminals and people who smoke crack on the trains. If you live in a region of the world that doesn’t have these issues, great, do what you want. We’re talking about the Bay Area specifically, and the thing keeping BART ridership down is that people don’t want to ride BART because it sucks. The actual service is mostly fine. The issue lies in the people. I also have no interest in subsidizing the people I know can afford to pay. In the years prior to the new fare gates being installed, I could walk off MUNI and just casually catch every type of person from every type of walk of life, and by that I mean mostly regular commuters with decent paying jobs, just casually free loading because they could.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - nartho 1y ago
      >2) we want public transit to be exclusionary on a fee-basis to exclude people who generally will not be able to pay for it on their own in order to avoid tragedy of the commons situations which actually suppress ridership by people who can afford to pay the fee: vagrants, criminals and people who smoke crack on the trains. These demographics have no issue jumping the gates/going through with someone else, are already present, and will be whether the ride is $1 or $1000. You're just excluding the honest people who can't afford it. I also don't know what makes you think that criminals have to be poor and can't afford a ride. > I could walk off MUNI and just casually catch every type of person from every type of walk of life, and by that I mean mostly regular commuters with decent paying jobs, just casually free loading because they could. I'm envious of your ability to access people's bank accounts and occupations by looking at them.

SllX 1y ago

BART has several discounts: https://www.bart.gov/tickets/discounts https://www.bart.gov/tickets/discounts Discounts are fine. Free riding isn’t.

edoceo 1y ago
Why is free public transport bad? Could get even more folk out of their cars, or expand employment opportunities.
- omnimus 1y ago
  Because socialism.
- SllX 1y ago
  I answered more thoroughly in response to your sibling comment.
- bethekidyouwant 1y ago
  Because the tube will be filled with the unwashed masses
- ianburrell 1y ago
  The price is not the barrier for most people using transit. The service reliability and availability is more important. Would you rather pay fare for frequent bus or wait around for free fares?
- Spooky23 1y ago
  Because people are people. You won’t be able to get on the train to commute when people are sleeping there. People don’t value free things, and it’s hard to plan things without pricing demand.
- darth_avocado 1y ago
  Because people in America have being taught to think that way. Plenty of countries run free (or near free) public transit just fine.
myrmidon 1y ago
> Discounts are fine. Free riding isn’t. Why not? Could you not make a pretty strong argument that avoided negative externalities (CO2 and air pollution from car engines and tires) make public transport worthwhile by itself, and just fund transport by taxing those (gas/cars)? Saves you all the infrastructure for billing/access control and some enforcement, too.
- SllX 1y ago
  1) it’s a funding source for transit agencies which are already facing shortfalls and at the mercy of voters for any tax increases or bonds. 2) we want public transit to be exclusionary on a fee-basis to exclude people who generally will not be able to pay for it on their own in order to avoid tragedy of the commons situations which actually suppress ridership by people who can afford to pay the fee: vagrants, criminals and people who smoke crack on the trains. If you live in a region of the world that doesn’t have these issues, great, do what you want. We’re talking about the Bay Area specifically, and the thing keeping BART ridership down is that people don’t want to ride BART because it sucks. The actual service is mostly fine. The issue lies in the people. I also have no interest in subsidizing the people I know can afford to pay. In the years prior to the new fare gates being installed, I could walk off MUNI and just casually catch every type of person from every type of walk of life, and by that I mean mostly regular commuters with decent paying jobs, just casually free loading because they could.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - nartho 1y ago
    >2) we want public transit to be exclusionary on a fee-basis to exclude people who generally will not be able to pay for it on their own in order to avoid tragedy of the commons situations which actually suppress ridership by people who can afford to pay the fee: vagrants, criminals and people who smoke crack on the trains. These demographics have no issue jumping the gates/going through with someone else, are already present, and will be whether the ride is $1 or $1000. You're just excluding the honest people who can't afford it. I also don't know what makes you think that criminals have to be poor and can't afford a ride. > I could walk off MUNI and just casually catch every type of person from every type of walk of life, and by that I mean mostly regular commuters with decent paying jobs, just casually free loading because they could. I'm envious of your ability to access people's bank accounts and occupations by looking at them.