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While I disagree with this perception that Trump is a "Russian asset", whatever this means, I agree that his whole goal in the second term is to punish the peop

While I disagree with this perception that Trump is a "Russian asset", whatever this means, I agree that his whole goal in the second term is to punish the people who opposed him in the first term. He'll do everything he can to make their lives miserable for the foreseeable future, and he doesn't care if this will destroy the country.

dragonwriter 1y ago
> While I disagree with this perception that Trump is a "Russian asset", whatever this means If you don't understand what it means, how can you know you disagree with it?
- coliveira 1y ago
  It's an undefined term that changes with whatever conspiracy they want to push. That's why I disagree with it. I don't like Trump, but he's the result of bad decisions made in America, not by some foreign power.
  - Smeevy 1y ago
    I think the problem here is that there isn't just one way in which Donald Trump is unduly influenced by Russia in ways that are difficult to explain. I can understand being skeptical, but there's several independent actions Trump has taken that are all inexplicably sympathetic to Russian interests. Just some quick examples: * Recommending American de-nuclearization while stating that Russia is no longer a threat to America. * Dismantling cybersecurity programs that are intended to identify and counter Russian hacking efforts. * Peace negotiations with Ukraine and Russia that require no concessions made by Russia. All of these actions are being taken despite polling poorly with Americans. You could say that none of these definitively proves that there is Russian leverage over Trump and you would be technically correct. The flip side of that coin is that you also can't explain why these actions are in America's best interest.
    - coliveira 1y ago
      You forget that Trump's enemies are all married to this narrative of Trump as Russian asset. So I'm very clear that he will try to destroy as many as these people as possible during his second term. This includes all the people pushing support for Ukraine, which is seen as a Biden project. It has nothing to do with helping Russia and more with his personal preservation in power.
      - philipwhiuk 1y ago
        > Trump's enemies Do you mean political rivals or do you have actual evidence the Democratic party is trying to kill him.
        naasking 1y ago
        You don't have to be murderous to be an enemy. They clearly want to throw him in prison, so isn't that enough for someone in that position to call them enemies?
        shnock 1y ago
        The definition of "enemy" is not limited to "people that are trying to kill you"
      - Smeevy 1y ago
        Respectfully, you're chalking a lot of this administration's questionable behavior that consistently benefits Russia up to temporarily aligned goals based on his fragile ego and fear of rightful imprisonment. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but that is an awful lot of accidental benefit for Russia and precious few others. Far too much for my tastes.
    - naasking 1y ago
      > several independent actions Trump has taken that are all inexplicably sympathetic to Russian interests Is it really inexplicable though? Or is it more plausible that you simply don't understand the motives, and probably haven't really tried?
standardUser 1y ago
"Russian asset" implies that the Russian government has compromising information on Donald Trump, or otherwise has leverage over him, which enables them to exert some level of control over his actions. People often point to the fact that, though Trump loudly and frequently criticizes our closest military and economic allies, he seems completely incapable of saying a single negative thing about Russia or Putin. As well as Trump's apparent desire to leave NATO (Putin's number 1 wet dream) and allow Russia to take Ukraine (or otherwise end the war in ways beneficial to Russia).
- coliveira 1y ago
  The fact that someone agrees with Russia's position doesn't immediately prove that he's an asset owned by them. All you said could be explained if he thinks that peace with Russia would be much better for the US than NATO expansionism, since it would reduce the tremendous cost of maintaining a war machine, put less money on the pockets of the war industry, and increase the opportunities for someone like him who wants to invest in real estate abroad.
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    > The fact that someone agrees with Russia's position doesn't immediately prove that he's an asset owned by them “Asset” in the officer/agent/asset trio of terms for relations to foreign intel/influence operations does not denote ownership, and refers to people who provide access and information or other support without necessarily having the kind of formal control relationship and commitment that makes an agent. (One analogy I've seen used is with romantic relationships, where an agent is like a committed partner and a asset is in a friend-with-benefits relationship.)
    - coliveira 1y ago
      But this is not the meaning assigned in the case of Trump. The conspiracy theory is that he is "owned" in the sense of having some secret that can be exploited by Russia.

dragonwriter 1y ago

> While I disagree with this perception that Trump is a "Russian asset", whatever this means If you don't understand what it means, how can you know you disagree with it?

coliveira 1y ago
It's an undefined term that changes with whatever conspiracy they want to push. That's why I disagree with it. I don't like Trump, but he's the result of bad decisions made in America, not by some foreign power.
- Smeevy 1y ago
  I think the problem here is that there isn't just one way in which Donald Trump is unduly influenced by Russia in ways that are difficult to explain. I can understand being skeptical, but there's several independent actions Trump has taken that are all inexplicably sympathetic to Russian interests. Just some quick examples: * Recommending American de-nuclearization while stating that Russia is no longer a threat to America. * Dismantling cybersecurity programs that are intended to identify and counter Russian hacking efforts. * Peace negotiations with Ukraine and Russia that require no concessions made by Russia. All of these actions are being taken despite polling poorly with Americans. You could say that none of these definitively proves that there is Russian leverage over Trump and you would be technically correct. The flip side of that coin is that you also can't explain why these actions are in America's best interest.
  - coliveira 1y ago
    You forget that Trump's enemies are all married to this narrative of Trump as Russian asset. So I'm very clear that he will try to destroy as many as these people as possible during his second term. This includes all the people pushing support for Ukraine, which is seen as a Biden project. It has nothing to do with helping Russia and more with his personal preservation in power.
    - philipwhiuk 1y ago
      > Trump's enemies Do you mean political rivals or do you have actual evidence the Democratic party is trying to kill him.
      - naasking 1y ago
        You don't have to be murderous to be an enemy. They clearly want to throw him in prison, so isn't that enough for someone in that position to call them enemies?
      - shnock 1y ago
        The definition of "enemy" is not limited to "people that are trying to kill you"
    - Smeevy 1y ago
      Respectfully, you're chalking a lot of this administration's questionable behavior that consistently benefits Russia up to temporarily aligned goals based on his fragile ego and fear of rightful imprisonment. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but that is an awful lot of accidental benefit for Russia and precious few others. Far too much for my tastes.
  - naasking 1y ago
    > several independent actions Trump has taken that are all inexplicably sympathetic to Russian interests Is it really inexplicable though? Or is it more plausible that you simply don't understand the motives, and probably haven't really tried?

standardUser 1y ago

"Russian asset" implies that the Russian government has compromising information on Donald Trump, or otherwise has leverage over him, which enables them to exert some level of control over his actions. People often point to the fact that, though Trump loudly and frequently criticizes our closest military and economic allies, he seems completely incapable of saying a single negative thing about Russia or Putin. As well as Trump's apparent desire to leave NATO (Putin's number 1 wet dream) and allow Russia to take Ukraine (or otherwise end the war in ways beneficial to Russia).

coliveira 1y ago
The fact that someone agrees with Russia's position doesn't immediately prove that he's an asset owned by them. All you said could be explained if he thinks that peace with Russia would be much better for the US than NATO expansionism, since it would reduce the tremendous cost of maintaining a war machine, put less money on the pockets of the war industry, and increase the opportunities for someone like him who wants to invest in real estate abroad.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  > The fact that someone agrees with Russia's position doesn't immediately prove that he's an asset owned by them “Asset” in the officer/agent/asset trio of terms for relations to foreign intel/influence operations does not denote ownership, and refers to people who provide access and information or other support without necessarily having the kind of formal control relationship and commitment that makes an agent. (One analogy I've seen used is with romantic relationships, where an agent is like a committed partner and a asset is in a friend-with-benefits relationship.)
  - coliveira 1y ago
    But this is not the meaning assigned in the case of Trump. The conspiracy theory is that he is "owned" in the sense of having some secret that can be exploited by Russia.