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Post, sir, and the mods be damned ! I did. It is indeed unfortunate that people vote down posts in discussions like these not because they are incorrect, but

Post, sir, and the mods be damned ! I did. It is indeed unfortunate that people vote down posts in discussions like these not because they are incorrect, but because they disagree with the facts presented. More Reddit than HN. But short of mods tracking down downvoters and having them justify their actions, I don't see how to de-Reddit it.

tomhow 1y ago
On HN it's almost always been considered fine to use downvoting to express disagreement [1] As moderators we don't particularly care what opinion you express, but it's everyone's responsibility to comment in a way that doesn't break the guidelines [2]. The most relevant to you in this thread are these ones: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- damnitbuilds 1y ago
  At [1] I see: "So I think that the up and down arrows should not express agreement, but insightfullness or truth. Not opinion." Which is exactly opposite to the statement you cite it in. I am making fact-based arguments. I see no fact-based counter-arguments, mostly nonsense and/or abuse that break [2] One can understand people's dislike of Trump. I share it. But that should surely not prevent us from being able to discuss the motivation for his actions, based on cited facts. But if a mod thinks this place, like Reddit, is just not the place to quote facts to people who do not want to read them, discuss them, or even allow them to be shown, and I do not anyway know how a mod would stop them, beyond a lot of tracking down downvoters, I guess it is also beyond redemption. Tant pis.
  - tomhow 1y ago
    The comment I linked to is from Paul Graham, the founder of this site, and the principle he expressed in that comment was that downvoting for disagreement was fine, because upvoting for agreement is also normal. The quote you cited was from a reply but we haven't adopted that; we've always upheld pg's principle. > I am making fact-based arguments. I see no fact-based counter-arguments, mostly nonsense and/or abuse that break [2] It's fine to state facts, and we want this to be a site where everyone can discuss difficult, controversial topics. But that can only happen if people are kind and respectful, and make their own efforts to observe the guidelines. The main problem with your style of commenting is that several of your comments contain personal swipes. If other commenters break the guidelines, you should flag them or email us to point them out, but you're only in a position to do that if you show, through your actions, that you're making an effort to respect the guidelines yourself. The guidelines that are most relevant in this case are: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

tomhow 1y ago

On HN it's almost always been considered fine to use downvoting to express disagreement [1] As moderators we don't particularly care what opinion you express, but it's everyone's responsibility to comment in a way that doesn't break the guidelines [2]. The most relevant to you in this thread are these ones: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

damnitbuilds 1y ago
At [1] I see: "So I think that the up and down arrows should not express agreement, but insightfullness or truth. Not opinion." Which is exactly opposite to the statement you cite it in. I am making fact-based arguments. I see no fact-based counter-arguments, mostly nonsense and/or abuse that break [2] One can understand people's dislike of Trump. I share it. But that should surely not prevent us from being able to discuss the motivation for his actions, based on cited facts. But if a mod thinks this place, like Reddit, is just not the place to quote facts to people who do not want to read them, discuss them, or even allow them to be shown, and I do not anyway know how a mod would stop them, beyond a lot of tracking down downvoters, I guess it is also beyond redemption. Tant pis.
- tomhow 1y ago
  The comment I linked to is from Paul Graham, the founder of this site, and the principle he expressed in that comment was that downvoting for disagreement was fine, because upvoting for agreement is also normal. The quote you cited was from a reply but we haven't adopted that; we've always upheld pg's principle. > I am making fact-based arguments. I see no fact-based counter-arguments, mostly nonsense and/or abuse that break [2] It's fine to state facts, and we want this to be a site where everyone can discuss difficult, controversial topics. But that can only happen if people are kind and respectful, and make their own efforts to observe the guidelines. The main problem with your style of commenting is that several of your comments contain personal swipes. If other commenters break the guidelines, you should flag them or email us to point them out, but you're only in a position to do that if you show, through your actions, that you're making an effort to respect the guidelines yourself. The guidelines that are most relevant in this case are: Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html