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The Catholic Church has long held that a confession is somewhat similar to praying directly to God and that anything heard is to be kept confidential, other tha

The Catholic Church has long held that a confession is somewhat similar to praying directly to God and that anything heard is to be kept confidential, other than priests discussing amongst themselves in the aggregate. Priests aren’t to take any action based on what they hear in the confessional. In theory, it should be anonymous, but that is largely symbolic these days. A priest can certainly tell someone at the confessional how to seek absolution and that could include turning themselves in. It should be kind of obvious that id the state wins here, abusers simply won’t confess in confessionals anymore. Not exactly a big win for the state.

wat10000 2y ago
People aren’t perfectly rational. Some will feel compelled to confess anyway. Some will not know about this requirement, or believe the priest won’t follow it, or just think they’re special and won’t get caught. I don’t imagine it will be a big effect, but it will catch some.
- harimau777 2y ago
  On the other hand, there could be numerous innocent people who would be unwilling to confess because of the risk that the priest will report to authorities. It's not hard to imagine a world where a government passes laws requiring priests to report homosexuality, immigration status, or attendance at anti-government protests.
  - wat10000 2y ago
    Why would innocent people confess to child abuse? No, it's not hard to imagine those kinds of laws, but that doesn't mean this law has to be bad as well. You have to look at the content of a law, not just its shape, to judge it. The only difference between a law making it illegal to punch someone in the nose and a law making it illegal to make the sign of the cross is the details of the arm movements.
    - cgriswald 2y ago
      This law as written doesn't require a confession or proof, but only suspicion and not of a crime, but of the law's definition of 'child abuse' which at its broadest defines abuse as "...injury of a child by any person under circumstances which cause harm to the child's health, welfare, or safety,..." It also has a specific carve out for members of the clergy requiring them to report it even when they suspect it only from privileged conversations.
      - wat10000 2y ago
        Mandatory reporting is nothing new. Applying it to the confessional is. But I really don’t see a reason for the state to consider a confessional to be privileged in a legal sense. The religion’s views on its rituals carry no legal weight.
        cgriswald 1y ago
        The state has already legal defined confession to be in the class of privileged conversations. Given the sensitive topics a person might address in confession, I think it is pretty easy to see why it might be privileged quite irrespective (and in fact, despite) the religions views on its own rituals.
firesteelrain 2y ago
Does the Church feel that not reporting is OK if it could cause say a child to continue to be abused if the police never find out? Truly trying to understand how that moral position is resolved. I would be beside myself if I knew I did nothing to try to stop it including reporting to authorities to have the person arrested
- Levitz 2y ago
  If the Church felt it was ok to report it, they wouldn't find themselves in the position to report to begin with. The point of the confession is the privacy itself and it might be the case that through this method more abusers confess and the whole thing is a net good for the world.
- harimau777 2y ago
  I think that the Catholic Church would argue that violating confidentiality could lead to people not confessing not only now but in the future. That in turn could lead to numerous souls suffering in hell for eternity. Certainly people who don't share the Catholic Church's religious beliefs may not agree, but it does seem logical that eternal suffering in hell would outweigh temporary suffering during life; even something as horrible as child sexual abuse. I imagine that priests in that situation would pay a heavy psychological toll for maintaining confidentiality. However, they believe that in the long run it is the best, most moral course of action.
  - Tadpole9181 2y ago
    If I believed I would go to Hell if I didn't skin a cat on a monthly basis, nobody would give me an exception from animal cruelty laws. If a father confesses he is sexually abusing their child, the priest has an obligation to report it. Let the father burn in Hell (he's a child abuser anyway, that's what it's for isn't it?) or the priest decide to be an accomplice to the crime.
- rawgabbit 2y ago
  The issue is privileged communication such as attorney client communications and clergy believer confessional. Currently that is protected under law. Outside of the confessional, church officials acting as teachers, counselors, administrators, care givers are already obliged to report potential abuse.

wat10000 2y ago

People aren’t perfectly rational. Some will feel compelled to confess anyway. Some will not know about this requirement, or believe the priest won’t follow it, or just think they’re special and won’t get caught. I don’t imagine it will be a big effect, but it will catch some.

harimau777 2y ago
On the other hand, there could be numerous innocent people who would be unwilling to confess because of the risk that the priest will report to authorities. It's not hard to imagine a world where a government passes laws requiring priests to report homosexuality, immigration status, or attendance at anti-government protests.
- wat10000 2y ago
  Why would innocent people confess to child abuse? No, it's not hard to imagine those kinds of laws, but that doesn't mean this law has to be bad as well. You have to look at the content of a law, not just its shape, to judge it. The only difference between a law making it illegal to punch someone in the nose and a law making it illegal to make the sign of the cross is the details of the arm movements.
  - cgriswald 2y ago
    This law as written doesn't require a confession or proof, but only suspicion and not of a crime, but of the law's definition of 'child abuse' which at its broadest defines abuse as "...injury of a child by any person under circumstances which cause harm to the child's health, welfare, or safety,..." It also has a specific carve out for members of the clergy requiring them to report it even when they suspect it only from privileged conversations.
    - wat10000 2y ago
      Mandatory reporting is nothing new. Applying it to the confessional is. But I really don’t see a reason for the state to consider a confessional to be privileged in a legal sense. The religion’s views on its rituals carry no legal weight.
      - cgriswald 1y ago
        The state has already legal defined confession to be in the class of privileged conversations. Given the sensitive topics a person might address in confession, I think it is pretty easy to see why it might be privileged quite irrespective (and in fact, despite) the religions views on its own rituals.

firesteelrain 2y ago

Does the Church feel that not reporting is OK if it could cause say a child to continue to be abused if the police never find out? Truly trying to understand how that moral position is resolved. I would be beside myself if I knew I did nothing to try to stop it including reporting to authorities to have the person arrested

Levitz 2y ago
If the Church felt it was ok to report it, they wouldn't find themselves in the position to report to begin with. The point of the confession is the privacy itself and it might be the case that through this method more abusers confess and the whole thing is a net good for the world.
harimau777 2y ago
I think that the Catholic Church would argue that violating confidentiality could lead to people not confessing not only now but in the future. That in turn could lead to numerous souls suffering in hell for eternity. Certainly people who don't share the Catholic Church's religious beliefs may not agree, but it does seem logical that eternal suffering in hell would outweigh temporary suffering during life; even something as horrible as child sexual abuse. I imagine that priests in that situation would pay a heavy psychological toll for maintaining confidentiality. However, they believe that in the long run it is the best, most moral course of action.
- Tadpole9181 2y ago
  If I believed I would go to Hell if I didn't skin a cat on a monthly basis, nobody would give me an exception from animal cruelty laws. If a father confesses he is sexually abusing their child, the priest has an obligation to report it. Let the father burn in Hell (he's a child abuser anyway, that's what it's for isn't it?) or the priest decide to be an accomplice to the crime.
rawgabbit 2y ago
The issue is privileged communication such as attorney client communications and clergy believer confessional. Currently that is protected under law. Outside of the confessional, church officials acting as teachers, counselors, administrators, care givers are already obliged to report potential abuse.