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I think you just proved the point by introducing yet another frontend framework to learn. And you absolutely don't want one tool to do everything. HTML/CSS is

I think you just proved the point by introducing yet another frontend framework to learn. And you absolutely don't want one tool to do everything. HTML/CSS is native and understanding it is a requirement for React. It also doesn't require Node and a build step.

nsonha 1y ago
I think all software engineers in the world who know HTML/CSS (like who doesn't?) beg to differ Really funny how some devs think they know the secrets of engineering simplicity and everyone else is a fool for not knowing what they know (HTML/CSS).
- owebmaster 1y ago
  Read this thread. There are some comments about using React components for everything and never touching HTML tags and CSS. And they probably call themselves senior frontend engineers.
  - nsonha 1y ago
    If not React it's just another abstraction (including whatever you come up with) that is arbitrary and shitty in a different way. Front-end/mobile is so boring and unimportant that it absolutely makes sense to just pick a thing and use it everywhere, and save your brain capacity for interesting problem solving. I say this as someone who's been doing front end for 10 years.
    - owebmaster 1y ago
      If frontend is boring and unimportant, what is exciting and important? saving records in a database? UX is what makes money and it is done through frontend.
      - nsonha 1y ago
        Client side is only interesting in complex generic reactive programming problems, state machines, domain modeling in the client, local first patterns. The part about browser or mobile platform intricacies is very lame.
        owebmaster 1y ago
        Coding and algorithms are just some of the tools available for frontend and software engineering. UX is another layer that most software engineers can't grasp, it involves art, sociology, politics. Calling it boring and unimportant when you are not good at it is a misunderstanding of software's true purpose.
        nsonha 1y ago
        No one even mentioned agorithm. If you are really user focus as you claim to be, you should love cross platform, focus on delivering values and not be a simp for these "native" tribal knowledge. Talking about misunderstanding software's true purpose.
        owebmaster 1y ago
        From talking shit about frontend to love cross platform it looks like you want to hate something but can't formulate well what's the problem.
        nsonha 1y ago
        Obviously I love to reduce front-end to generic problem solving and abstract the platform aways which contradicts directly with your amateurish "looks ma how minimal and artisan my html & css are".
        owebmaster 1y ago
        > Obviously I love to reduce front-end to generic problem solving and abstract the platform aways And I'm sure you do it as well as other delusional backend-only coders
lmm 1y ago
> HTML/CSS is native and understanding it is a requirement for React. It's not necessary and the ROI is poor IMO, especially for CSS. Better to just use React for everything and not worry about the implementation details; yes those details will sometimes help you debug, just like knowing machine code will occasionally help you debug your compiled code, but it's not something to put a lot of your learning budget into. > It also doesn't require Node and a build step. The point is assuming you already have node and a build step. You already know React. So just use it for everything. Everyone who thinks they can "just write HTML/CSS" ends up introducing Hugo or Gatsby or whatnot (or, worse, writing their own "simple" Makefiles and shell scripts) and gradually adding more and more features until it's just as complex as React. Just use React.
- satvikpendem 1y ago
  > It's not necessary and the ROI is poor IMO, especially for CSS. Better to just use React for everything and not worry about the implementation details; yes those details will sometimes help you debug, just like knowing machine code will occasionally help you debug your compiled code, but it's not something to put a lot of your learning budget into. ...what? What are you writing in React if not HTML tags and CSS classes? How can you even write anything in React without that? React doesn't do anything CSS specific either, so I don't understand how you'd even style anything if HTML and CSS were not a "necessity."
  - lmm 1y ago
    > What are you writing in React if not HTML tags and CSS classes? UIs made of React components. I try to avoid having to know or care about the underlying implementation details.
    - satvikpendem 1y ago
      And what are in those components? Divs with a className property I assume? Or are you literally only using components other people have made in UI libraries with no changes of your own?

nsonha 1y ago

I think all software engineers in the world who know HTML/CSS (like who doesn't?) beg to differ Really funny how some devs think they know the secrets of engineering simplicity and everyone else is a fool for not knowing what they know (HTML/CSS).

owebmaster 1y ago
Read this thread. There are some comments about using React components for everything and never touching HTML tags and CSS. And they probably call themselves senior frontend engineers.
- nsonha 1y ago
  If not React it's just another abstraction (including whatever you come up with) that is arbitrary and shitty in a different way. Front-end/mobile is so boring and unimportant that it absolutely makes sense to just pick a thing and use it everywhere, and save your brain capacity for interesting problem solving. I say this as someone who's been doing front end for 10 years.
  - owebmaster 1y ago
    If frontend is boring and unimportant, what is exciting and important? saving records in a database? UX is what makes money and it is done through frontend.
    - nsonha 1y ago
      Client side is only interesting in complex generic reactive programming problems, state machines, domain modeling in the client, local first patterns. The part about browser or mobile platform intricacies is very lame.
      - owebmaster 1y ago
        Coding and algorithms are just some of the tools available for frontend and software engineering. UX is another layer that most software engineers can't grasp, it involves art, sociology, politics. Calling it boring and unimportant when you are not good at it is a misunderstanding of software's true purpose.
        nsonha 1y ago
        No one even mentioned agorithm. If you are really user focus as you claim to be, you should love cross platform, focus on delivering values and not be a simp for these "native" tribal knowledge. Talking about misunderstanding software's true purpose.
        owebmaster 1y ago
        From talking shit about frontend to love cross platform it looks like you want to hate something but can't formulate well what's the problem.
        nsonha 1y ago
        Obviously I love to reduce front-end to generic problem solving and abstract the platform aways which contradicts directly with your amateurish "looks ma how minimal and artisan my html & css are".
        owebmaster 1y ago
        > Obviously I love to reduce front-end to generic problem solving and abstract the platform aways And I'm sure you do it as well as other delusional backend-only coders

lmm 1y ago

> HTML/CSS is native and understanding it is a requirement for React. It's not necessary and the ROI is poor IMO, especially for CSS. Better to just use React for everything and not worry about the implementation details; yes those details will sometimes help you debug, just like knowing machine code will occasionally help you debug your compiled code, but it's not something to put a lot of your learning budget into. > It also doesn't require Node and a build step. The point is assuming you already have node and a build step. You already know React. So just use it for everything. Everyone who thinks they can "just write HTML/CSS" ends up introducing Hugo or Gatsby or whatnot (or, worse, writing their own "simple" Makefiles and shell scripts) and gradually adding more and more features until it's just as complex as React. Just use React.

satvikpendem 1y ago
> It's not necessary and the ROI is poor IMO, especially for CSS. Better to just use React for everything and not worry about the implementation details; yes those details will sometimes help you debug, just like knowing machine code will occasionally help you debug your compiled code, but it's not something to put a lot of your learning budget into. ...what? What are you writing in React if not HTML tags and CSS classes? How can you even write anything in React without that? React doesn't do anything CSS specific either, so I don't understand how you'd even style anything if HTML and CSS were not a "necessity."
- lmm 1y ago
  > What are you writing in React if not HTML tags and CSS classes? UIs made of React components. I try to avoid having to know or care about the underlying implementation details.
  - satvikpendem 1y ago
    And what are in those components? Divs with a className property I assume? Or are you literally only using components other people have made in UI libraries with no changes of your own?