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While hieroglyphic cryptography is a thing (as is BTW "sportive orthography" in Ancient Egyptian), this is not it. I am all for acknowledging that Ancient Egypt
by DemocracyFTW2 1y ago
While hieroglyphic cryptography is a thing (as is BTW "sportive orthography" in Ancient Egyptian), this is not it. I am all for acknowledging that Ancient Egyptian art is often merging writing and depiction in a way that escapes the unprepared who would point to a prominent figure in a grave wall decoration and say 'this is a picture', then point to some hieroglyphs and say 'that is writing'. It's in principle not wrong but misses the point that frequently the choice of hieroglyphs, their orientation and variations in orthography correspond to details of the depicted subject, while the pictures can often be read out, either by describing the participants and their actions, or by naming the parts.
As for the latter, there's a statue of "Ramesses II (Dyn XIX) as a Child"[1] which shows Horus as a falcon with the sun (rꜥ) on his breast, a child (ms) beneath it, in his hand a sedge plant (sw). Naming the parts—sun, child, sedge—in this order gives rꜥmssw, vocalized raꜥmissaw, roughly maybe approximately [raʕ'missaw], in any event the very name of Ramesses, meaning "He is / was born / brought forth by Ra / the Sun". Note that you'll have to choose to omit ḥr "Horus" although the falcon dominates the sculpture, and that the sedge does not represent a plant but, by virtue of sounding like it, the 3rd person suffix sw "he", so there's some guesswork involved. All said, it's a fine example of a "rebus".
Neither rebus reading nor pictorial description are commonly classified as cryptographic orthography in Egyptology.
The statue demonstrates nicely how acutely aware of their language, their artistic traditions and their writing Egyptian artists were. When we look at the depiction of Pharaoh and Amun on the obelisk as explained by Olette-Pelletier, however, we hardly see any of this. Yes, an arm with an offering on the palm of the hand was often used to write dy "to give", but usually those offerings are triangular bread loaves, not round nw vessels. Yes, the hieroglyph for "ḥtp" looks like a flat rectangle but, again, with a bread offering on it which is missing from the flat rectangle that pharaoh is kneeling on.
I really wonder what the fuzz is about; clearly it's a picture of the king giving offering to the god, and all he does is read out the picture. This is something that you can do with a lot of Egyptian art: there's the king, you know him by the distinctive crown, and there's Amun, which you know again by his distinctive headdress sporting two long feathers. The king is kneeling because he's offering, and he has his arms stretched out presenting stuff because he's, well, giving. The king is giving things to the god. What part of that was not known before, what part of that is cryptographic?
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ramesses_II_as_child.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ramesses_II_as_child.jpg
- conartist6 1y agoVery interesting. Could this just be a miscommunication caused by a blogger literally looking to write clickbait? Hype up a paper without revealing its main conclusion? I would have no way of knowing if this very literal reading of the scene contains some wordplay that would require knowing how these words sounded.
- DemocracyFTW2 1y agoWell let's say the editors of at least some of the publications that carried the news in a sensationalist tone should've known better but they apparently were more in for more clicks as opposed to critical thinking and informed judgement. That said I'm no Egyptologist myself as seemingly the journalists aren't, either, but as for me I'm itching to write a scathing takedown of this affair. I'm open to discovering that maybe the originator of the theory was misunderstood by the media, maybe his wording was not clear enough. I guess what I want to say is when you want clicks there's more than one way to do it; my way would roughly be (1) criticize use of the term 'cryptography' when all they do is tell me what they see in the picture: king giving offerings to god; king's sitting on a mat(?), god's standing on a plinth (as is customary); (2) criticize the very specific interpretation they give for this particular depiction when we find this same motive all over the place, all of the time; (3) criticize the claim that only nobles travelling by boat would have been able to see and understand the message when in Ancient Egypt taking a boat to cross the river as well as, as a local of Thebes, taking part in festivities must both have been very commonplace for old and young, rich and poor alike; also, artists in general and, for example, the foremen of worker gangs working on Khufu's pyramid were very well able to use writing and depictions to express themselves.