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The pope is not a subject that typically interests me, but I must admit that I find announcing a decision with changing smoke color rather delightful. I wonder

The pope is not a subject that typically interests me, but I must admit that I find announcing a decision with changing smoke color rather delightful. I wonder how long ago that started.

ch4s3 1y ago
The white smoke means there's a pope thing started in 1914[1], but they've been burning the ballots for a very long time. [1]https://www.history.com/articles/pope-conclave-smoke-color https://www.history.com/articles/pope-conclave-smoke-color
- wvbdmp 1y ago
  Any chance the guy who programmed history.com to redirect deep links to your local tld version’s frontpage is on HN? What a helpful feature
  - majewsky 1y ago
    They might be, but the necktie that made them do it sure isn't.
- nosianu 1y ago
  Annoyingly, when I go to that page, even from Google where I found that URL too, I end up at the German homepage www.history.de (no path, the main page). I cannot go to history.com no matter what. I hate "intelligent" websites as much as I like touchpad microwaves, and that means not at all. Why would anyone assume an enforced(!!!) connection between my geographic location and the language-version of the website?
  - seszett 1y ago
    I even get to "history.nl/nl" even though I'm a French speaker in Belgium. On a French connection it redirects to "aenetworks.tv". I don't think there is any way to access that page from outside the US.
  - Sharlin 1y ago
    It's one of the classic falsehoods that programmers (or perhaps more accurately, product managers) believe about localization: that location equals language.
  - bromuro 1y ago
    Mine goes to Youtube after some quick redirects :(
  - 4ggr0 1y ago
    > I hate "intelligent" websites as much as I like touchpad microwaves, and that means not at all So you don't hate "intelligent" websites, at all? :D Then you must love this lang-redirect!
lbhdc 1y ago
There was an interesting video by the Religion for Breakfast channel that talked about the process and where some of the rules came from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNwgh787umM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNwgh787umM
mlmonge 1y ago
From Catholic News Agency [1], for your convenience: The history of the white smoke, which indicates that the cardinals have elected a new successor of St. Peter, is ancient. In 1274, at the Second Council of Lyons, Pope Gregory X, in a document titled Ubi Periculum, determined the procedure for holding a conclave. There he specified that the election would be done in isolation and with strict secrecy. For this reason, and to avoid any communication with the outside, the smoke signal was eventually adopted as part of the ritual. The tradition of burning ballots goes back to at least 1417, and likely before then, according to historian Frederic J. Baumgartner. The addition of the white spoke to announce the election of a new pope is more recent, however. Baumgartner traces it to 1914, with the election of Pope Benedict XV. If the smoke coming out of the chimney of the Sistine Chapel is black, it means that none of the proposed candidates has reached two-thirds of the votes needed to be elected. If the smoke is white, the Church has a new universal pastor. In ancient times, the method to give the smoke these colors was to burn the ballots used in the voting with a bit of wet straw so that it would come out black, or dry so as to obtain white smoke. Nowadays, and due to some episodes that caused confusion, special chemical compounds and a procedure that includes two different tubes, one for each color of smoke, are used. In addition, a bell is rung, part of the ritual introduced when Pope Benedict XVI was elected, which confirms the smoke is white and a new pope has been elected. [1] https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/263867/the-story-behind-habemus-papam-and-the-white-smoke-annoucing-a-new-pope https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/263867/the-story-beh...
- gjm11 1y ago
  That's a confusing paragraph. > The addition of the white smoke to announce the election of a new pope is more recent, however. Baumgartner traces it to 1914 [...] but also > In ancient times, the method to give the smoke these colors was to burn the ballots used in the voting with a bit of wet straw [...] In ... the ancient times of 1914? Something's wrong here. (For what it's worth, the Wikipedia article about this says that before 1914 black smoke meant "we held a ballot but it didn't successfully choose a new pope" and no smoke meant something other than that, though it's not clear there what the "we got one" signal was. The Wikipedia article, unlike the Catholic News Agency one, cites some references, but I haven't checked them.)
EasyMark 1y ago
Yeah I usually don't pay attention but as an American, rock on Pope Leo! I think this is a nice plus in a sea of minuses that has hit the USA lately as far as it's status in the world looking more and more like the bad guy.

The pope is not a subject that typically interests me, but I must admit that I find announcing a decision with changing smoke color rather delightful. I wonder how long ago that started.

ch4s3 1y ago

The white smoke means there's a pope thing started in 1914[1], but they've been burning the ballots for a very long time. [1]https://www.history.com/articles/pope-conclave-smoke-color https://www.history.com/articles/pope-conclave-smoke-color

wvbdmp 1y ago
Any chance the guy who programmed history.com to redirect deep links to your local tld version’s frontpage is on HN? What a helpful feature
- majewsky 1y ago
  They might be, but the necktie that made them do it sure isn't.
nosianu 1y ago
Annoyingly, when I go to that page, even from Google where I found that URL too, I end up at the German homepage www.history.de (no path, the main page). I cannot go to history.com no matter what. I hate "intelligent" websites as much as I like touchpad microwaves, and that means not at all. Why would anyone assume an enforced(!!!) connection between my geographic location and the language-version of the website?
- seszett 1y ago
  I even get to "history.nl/nl" even though I'm a French speaker in Belgium. On a French connection it redirects to "aenetworks.tv". I don't think there is any way to access that page from outside the US.
- Sharlin 1y ago
  It's one of the classic falsehoods that programmers (or perhaps more accurately, product managers) believe about localization: that location equals language.
- bromuro 1y ago
  Mine goes to Youtube after some quick redirects :(
- 4ggr0 1y ago
  > I hate "intelligent" websites as much as I like touchpad microwaves, and that means not at all So you don't hate "intelligent" websites, at all? :D Then you must love this lang-redirect!

lbhdc 1y ago

There was an interesting video by the Religion for Breakfast channel that talked about the process and where some of the rules came from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNwgh787umM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNwgh787umM

mlmonge 1y ago

From Catholic News Agency [1], for your convenience: The history of the white smoke, which indicates that the cardinals have elected a new successor of St. Peter, is ancient. In 1274, at the Second Council of Lyons, Pope Gregory X, in a document titled Ubi Periculum, determined the procedure for holding a conclave. There he specified that the election would be done in isolation and with strict secrecy. For this reason, and to avoid any communication with the outside, the smoke signal was eventually adopted as part of the ritual. The tradition of burning ballots goes back to at least 1417, and likely before then, according to historian Frederic J. Baumgartner. The addition of the white spoke to announce the election of a new pope is more recent, however. Baumgartner traces it to 1914, with the election of Pope Benedict XV. If the smoke coming out of the chimney of the Sistine Chapel is black, it means that none of the proposed candidates has reached two-thirds of the votes needed to be elected. If the smoke is white, the Church has a new universal pastor. In ancient times, the method to give the smoke these colors was to burn the ballots used in the voting with a bit of wet straw so that it would come out black, or dry so as to obtain white smoke. Nowadays, and due to some episodes that caused confusion, special chemical compounds and a procedure that includes two different tubes, one for each color of smoke, are used. In addition, a bell is rung, part of the ritual introduced when Pope Benedict XVI was elected, which confirms the smoke is white and a new pope has been elected. [1] https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/263867/the-story-behind-habemus-papam-and-the-white-smoke-annoucing-a-new-pope https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/263867/the-story-beh...

gjm11 1y ago
That's a confusing paragraph. > The addition of the white smoke to announce the election of a new pope is more recent, however. Baumgartner traces it to 1914 [...] but also > In ancient times, the method to give the smoke these colors was to burn the ballots used in the voting with a bit of wet straw [...] In ... the ancient times of 1914? Something's wrong here. (For what it's worth, the Wikipedia article about this says that before 1914 black smoke meant "we held a ballot but it didn't successfully choose a new pope" and no smoke meant something other than that, though it's not clear there what the "we got one" signal was. The Wikipedia article, unlike the Catholic News Agency one, cites some references, but I haven't checked them.)

EasyMark 1y ago

Yeah I usually don't pay attention but as an American, rock on Pope Leo! I think this is a nice plus in a sea of minuses that has hit the USA lately as far as it's status in the world looking more and more like the bad guy.