4 ms·

I was cynical when I clicked on the link-bait title, but you're totally mischaracterizing what the article said. It's like you didn't read it. The article doe

by crusso 14y ago

I was cynical when I clicked on the link-bait title, but you're totally mischaracterizing what the article said. It's like you didn't read it. The article doesn't advise learning to program to build an app so you can be useful like CS people. His point is that you need to do something that others value. You need to adapt to the markets out there and learn how to sell rather than think you can go make a great living weaving baskets from bubblegum wrappers because that's "your passion". For a given set of goals, I think that his advice is spot on. If I were to quibble with the article it's in the assumption that everyone has his goals. Maybe I don't want to make a bunch of money. Maybe I'm happy barely getting by as long as I can play the pan flute to people wandering through the New Orleans French Quarter. Then again, this is an article up-voted on HN, a site dedicated to entrepreneurs.

rmk2 14y ago
My problem is that the article makes great sweeping points, pretending to talk about some sort of general truth while in fact catering to a very specific readership, HN possibly being exactly that. I am aware what HN is, what bothers me is the generalising tendency apparent here without actually being self-reflecting enough to also see that not everybody's world works like that. I find this to be observable in both the article and many comments.
- crusso 14y ago
  catering to a very specific readership, HN possibly being exactly that So your point is that this article is way too entrepreneurial and HackerNewsy and you don't like that? I don't understand the need to participate in a community based upon a set of ideas and then rail against them as though everyone else here made a mistake in the URL line of their browsers. I love entrepreneurialism. I love startups and the startup culture. I love the idea that you can free yourself of the corporate world by adopting the right attitudes, honing the right skill sets, and working really hard. I feed off the energy of HN and enjoy reading articles about how people succeed, how they fail, and just what other entrepreneurs are up to. I grant you that the article assumes some wants and the way some people work. However, I believe that the author is reacting to a very present "you can do whatever you want, little snowflake" theme in society. In reality, I feel that there's a fine balance between finding something you love to do while adapting what you love to something that you can sell and market. But I don't criticize the author, his article, or HN for believing that the pendulum could use a big shift away from the snowflakes of the world.
  - drivingmenuts 14y ago
    I don't understand the need to participate in a community based upon a set of ideas and then rail against them as though everyone else here made a mistake in the URL line of their browsers. You're right. I'm out.
  - rm999 14y ago
    > So your point is that this article is way too entrepreneurial and HackerNewsy and you don't like that? I think his point is that the article is hiding a narrow-minded view of the world as general advice. >I don't understand the need to participate in a community based upon a set of ideas and then rail against them as though everyone else here made a mistake in the URL line of their browsers. I don't get the point of discussing things only with people who will exactly agree with you.
- jilebedev 14y ago
  > the article makes great sweeping points, pretending to talk about some sort of general truth while in fact catering to a very specific readership For reference, here are the article's points: > The market doesn’t care what you love > You must create value > You must be adaptable. > You must learn how to sell > You must be entrepreneurial Clearly list your criticisms. The absurdity of your two comments is staggering.
nsmartt 14y ago
>weaving baskets from bubble gum This reminded me of Walden. In short, I went on thus for a long time (I may say it without boasting), faithfully minding my business, till it became more and more evident that my townsmen would not after all admit me into the list of town officers, nor make my place a sinecure with a moderate allowance. My accounts, which I can swear to have kept faithfully, I have, indeed, never got audited, still less accepted, still less paid and settled. However, I have not set my heart on that. Not long since, a strolling Indian went to sell baskets at the house of a well-known lawyer in my neighborhood. "Do you wish to buy any baskets?" he asked. "No, we do not want any," was the reply. "What!" exclaimed the Indian as he went out the gate, "do you mean to starve us?" Having seen his industrious white neighbors so well off- that the lawyer had only to weave arguments, and, by some magic, wealth and standing followed- he had said to himself: I will go into business; I will weave baskets; it is a thing which I can do. Thinking that when he had made the baskets he would have done his part, and then it would be the white man's to buy them. He had not discovered that it was necessary for him to make it worth the other's while to buy them, or at least make him think that it was so, or to make something else which it would be worth his while to buy. Thoreau goes on to say that he wove a basket of his own, but, rather than making it worth others' while to buy them, forgo the necessity of selling them altogether.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
tesseractive 14y ago
As someone who's reached my 40s and never been particularly concerned with any more financial success than it takes to pay my bills, I wish I had heard more advice like this when I was younger. Because it's still pretty good advice. You don't have to throw every ounce of effort you have into your career and work harder than everyone else. But you do have to have skills someone wants and put in effort to build a career. How specialized those skills are and how much effort depends on what the job market is like and what your goals are. In any case, no one owes you a job -- but they might give you one if you can demonstrate that you can help them meet their goals. Whether that's waiting tables or a low level professional job or a "rock star" developer or running your own business empire, those basic principles are still true. And there's nothing wrong with any of those as long as you're happy with the tradeoffs involved.

by crusso 14y ago

rmk2 14y ago

My problem is that the article makes great sweeping points, pretending to talk about some sort of general truth while in fact catering to a very specific readership, HN possibly being exactly that. I am aware what HN is, what bothers me is the generalising tendency apparent here without actually being self-reflecting enough to also see that not everybody's world works like that. I find this to be observable in both the article and many comments.

crusso 14y ago
catering to a very specific readership, HN possibly being exactly that So your point is that this article is way too entrepreneurial and HackerNewsy and you don't like that? I don't understand the need to participate in a community based upon a set of ideas and then rail against them as though everyone else here made a mistake in the URL line of their browsers. I love entrepreneurialism. I love startups and the startup culture. I love the idea that you can free yourself of the corporate world by adopting the right attitudes, honing the right skill sets, and working really hard. I feed off the energy of HN and enjoy reading articles about how people succeed, how they fail, and just what other entrepreneurs are up to. I grant you that the article assumes some wants and the way some people work. However, I believe that the author is reacting to a very present "you can do whatever you want, little snowflake" theme in society. In reality, I feel that there's a fine balance between finding something you love to do while adapting what you love to something that you can sell and market. But I don't criticize the author, his article, or HN for believing that the pendulum could use a big shift away from the snowflakes of the world.
- drivingmenuts 14y ago
  I don't understand the need to participate in a community based upon a set of ideas and then rail against them as though everyone else here made a mistake in the URL line of their browsers. You're right. I'm out.
- rm999 14y ago
  > So your point is that this article is way too entrepreneurial and HackerNewsy and you don't like that? I think his point is that the article is hiding a narrow-minded view of the world as general advice. >I don't understand the need to participate in a community based upon a set of ideas and then rail against them as though everyone else here made a mistake in the URL line of their browsers. I don't get the point of discussing things only with people who will exactly agree with you.
jilebedev 14y ago
> the article makes great sweeping points, pretending to talk about some sort of general truth while in fact catering to a very specific readership For reference, here are the article's points: > The market doesn’t care what you love > You must create value > You must be adaptable. > You must learn how to sell > You must be entrepreneurial Clearly list your criticisms. The absurdity of your two comments is staggering.

nsmartt 14y ago

>weaving baskets from bubble gum This reminded me of Walden. In short, I went on thus for a long time (I may say it without boasting), faithfully minding my business, till it became more and more evident that my townsmen would not after all admit me into the list of town officers, nor make my place a sinecure with a moderate allowance. My accounts, which I can swear to have kept faithfully, I have, indeed, never got audited, still less accepted, still less paid and settled. However, I have not set my heart on that. Not long since, a strolling Indian went to sell baskets at the house of a well-known lawyer in my neighborhood. "Do you wish to buy any baskets?" he asked. "No, we do not want any," was the reply. "What!" exclaimed the Indian as he went out the gate, "do you mean to starve us?" Having seen his industrious white neighbors so well off- that the lawyer had only to weave arguments, and, by some magic, wealth and standing followed- he had said to himself: I will go into business; I will weave baskets; it is a thing which I can do. Thinking that when he had made the baskets he would have done his part, and then it would be the white man's to buy them. He had not discovered that it was necessary for him to make it worth the other's while to buy them, or at least make him think that it was so, or to make something else which it would be worth his while to buy. Thoreau goes on to say that he wove a basket of his own, but, rather than making it worth others' while to buy them, forgo the necessity of selling them altogether.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

tesseractive 14y ago

As someone who's reached my 40s and never been particularly concerned with any more financial success than it takes to pay my bills, I wish I had heard more advice like this when I was younger. Because it's still pretty good advice. You don't have to throw every ounce of effort you have into your career and work harder than everyone else. But you do have to have skills someone wants and put in effort to build a career. How specialized those skills are and how much effort depends on what the job market is like and what your goals are. In any case, no one owes you a job -- but they might give you one if you can demonstrate that you can help them meet their goals. Whether that's waiting tables or a low level professional job or a "rock star" developer or running your own business empire, those basic principles are still true. And there's nothing wrong with any of those as long as you're happy with the tradeoffs involved.