7 ms·

The thing is, traditional receivers wanted to be the "brains" of home theater, switching video inputs, managing audio, turning everything on. That role is no l

The thing is, traditional receivers wanted to be the "brains" of home theater, switching video inputs, managing audio, turning everything on. That role is no longer sensible when used with smart TVs/Apple TV boxes/Android TV boxes. As a result, traditional receivers are relegated to be being audio decoders and amplifiers. Honestly, I think there's already more manufactured and lying around than the world really needs. It was inevitable that a few product lines would be consolidated.

bombcar 1y ago
eARC or whatever it is really changed this. I don't need a receiver with buttons anymore, I just need one that handles eARC gracefully. We're about five years away from "no remotes" anymore, imo. As it is I only need to find the TV remote when something goes really wonky - and even then I can reset it by using the smart app to power cycle the outlet ;)
- kyriakos 1y ago
  eARC is amazing tech - when it works. I have a recent top of the line Samsung TV, and last year's 5.1 Samsung soundbar and even though both components are from the same brand there are some very frustrating times eARC fails. The rest of the time it works like magic.
  - dylan604 1y ago
    I often get weird issues using the ARC, and have never tracked it down. I don't know if it is the audio device of the TV. Randomly, the audio will get all distorted for a random amount of time, and then suddenly it snaps back to normal. I never looked into the format to see if there's some sort of re-sync signal sent periodically that is part of ARC, but that would make sense to me based on observed behavior. When the audio gets weird, it's sounds like some sort of sample rate issue as the sound changes pitch, plays distorted, and goes out of sync with the video. My TV and audio equipment happen to have an optical connection and after switching to that away from ARC, the issue has gone away.
    - Marsymars 1y ago
      I had perfectly working eARC for over a year until I started getting random audio dropouts. After months, I figured out they were due to my Wii U coming out of standby and checking for updates on a different HDMI port. I think it worked fine before a firmware update to either my TV or my soundbar. Works fine again after disabling the Wii U's background updates.
  - bombcar 1y ago
    There's a reason my tv was named "Slamsung" for awhile, and I didn't cry or yell at all when a kid put a toy through it. Thing was an absolute steaming pile of barely usable crap, so I went back to Vizio.
- mikepurvis 1y ago
  For a wall-mounted TV, it's still pretty essential to get a single cable run to it, vs needing to plug in each device individually. That said, it's curious how the multiplexing and audio amp functionality ended up in the same box. Really what it should be is: - a "remote" multiplexer comes in the box with my TV. It speaks HDMI/CEC to the TV telling it what input is active so that the TV's UI can reflect that and it can do things like switch between movie and game mode picture tuning. - the former AVR should become a purely eARC box with no buttons, not even a power button— it comes on on command of the TV, and adjusts its amplification volume according to the same eARC signals that a soundbar uses. Any initial calibration or speaker setup is done via a single-use phone app.
  - tass 1y ago
    Monoprice make a HDMI switch that does a lot of this. No metadata for game mode, etc. as far as I know but I have: TV Apple TV on earc connection (HomePods for sound) Blackbird switch with all other devices. It can automatically switch between everything, but also has an IR remote for selecting an input.
    - mikepurvis 1y ago
      I've had bad experiences in the past with autodetecting switches, especially that tiny square one. But I should give this a shot— it would be awfully nice to just pipe everything directly to the TV and have the AVR in eARC-only mode.
  - mitthrowaway2 1y ago
    Isn't it done this way because your TV might not be the only thing that wants to use your nice speakers?
    - mikepurvis 1y ago
      I guess that's true too, certainly in a living room setting if you've still got a vinyl player or whatever— but modern TVs have the audio streaming apps of course, plus they can be a cast target for anything on your phone. Maybe it also matters in a home theatre that's oriented around a projector rather than TV.
jauntywundrkind 1y ago
Really good call out, that the TV now often is the center of the AV experience, where-as the "receiver" (and amplifier) used to be driving the show. I really really wish there were digital audio decoder/processors available. It sucks so bad that you either buy a semi affordable consumer amplifier with 7.2.2 Dolby Atmos out and ok amplification, or if you want to step up you need a $4000+ processor whose only real job is decoding Dolby formats & turning them into analog outs for amplification. And there's almost no market, just a couple odd products like Emotiva's XMC-2: https://emotiva.com/products/xmc-2-plus-16-channel-9-1-6-discrete-dolby-atmos-dts-x-cinema-processor https://emotiva.com/products/xmc-2-plus-16-channel-9-1-6-dis... Opener standards like DTS would hopefully have some remedy here but if the source material isn't available it hardly matters. Hoping for actual open standards Immersive Audio Model and Format (iamf) and the Eclipsa Audio Format profiles atop that maybe some day give us good spatial audio that an rpi and multichannel sound out board can help us free ourselves from this vile civilization-scale Dolby tarpit with. https://opensource.googleblog.com/2025/01/introducing-eclipsa-audio-immersive-audio-for-everyone.html https://opensource.googleblog.com/2025/01/introducing-eclips...
- Duwensatzaj 1y ago
  MiniDSP? https://www.minidsp.com/ https://www.minidsp.com/ I used their stuff for a four-speaker audio setup but they do affordable home theater devices as well.
  - bob1029 1y ago
    I use the miniDSP 2x4 in my office right now to split the LFE and filter out the room modes. It's amazing the difference you can make with a basic DSP engine and a tape measure.
  - EnPissant 1y ago
    MiniDSP doesn't do any bitstream decoding.
  - drodgers 1y ago
    They don't do any of the Dolby decoding and multi-channel mixing. Their closest product is the miniDSP Flex HT which is really about applying EQ to a bunch of channels (only 8, aka 7.1 or 5.2.1) after they've been decoded by an upstream receiver. It's pretty niche.
al_borland 1y ago
This is one of the things that kept me from getting a proper home theater setup. It always seemed like more complexity than I wanted under my TV. I could do it, but I simply objected to the idea. Not to mention, I like for someone to be able to come to my house and use my TV without taking a class first.
- keoneflick 1y ago
  Yes, definitely had that experience growing up of going over to someone's house and being unable to operate the very complex tower of black boxes. Could not agree more.
- baq 1y ago
  > It always seemed like more complexity than I wanted under my TV. the receiver doesn't need to be under the TV. it can sit in a basement. the question is if you really want to have proper sound or it's only a nice to have. > use my TV without taking a class first this is not an issue at all. HDMI ARC handles this.
- skydhash 1y ago
  I have a somewhat cheap Denon for 5.1 audio and after the initial sound setup, I've never needed to touch the settings other for adjusting the subwoofer volume. It's mostly Apple TV -> AVR -> TV, but I got other inputs like a PS4 and a PC for music. And it has Airplay, Bluetooth and Spotify Connect for anyone that wants to play from their phone. There's no need for a super-complicated setup for good sound.
  - anton-c 1y ago
    When non-tech people(ie my folks) set one up, you end up with the 3 remote thing for a cable box, receiver, and streaming stuff. It's real wild - I just let them turn stuff on when I'm over there. I do audio work but they took my brothers recommendation on the home theater so I'm a bit 'you made your bed' about it haha.
    - skydhash 1y ago
tzs 1y ago
Any article posted here about smart TVs draws a large number of comments about limitations and annoyances of smart TV platforms. 90+% of the things people complain about would no longer be a problem if they got a traditional A/V receiver, plugged all their sources such as streaming boxes and game consoles into the receiver, and just used the smart TV as a monitor (and as a tuner if they watch OTA television). Until that is no longer the case there will be a role for traditional A/V receivers.
- keoneflick 1y ago
  You can have the TV still be a dumb monitor by using a TV box, but handle the switching of inputs if you have more than one input. The problem is that as video technology has advanced, it makes less and less sense to pay for video processing technology on a receiver. Your new TV supports HDMI 2.1 with 120hz and VRR for your new PS5. Does your receiver? Are you willing to spend $1000 to upgrade your receiver to simply correctly pass through that video signal, with little meaningful audio upgrade?
  - timc3 1y ago
    But a lot only support that on 2 ports (though admittedly how many devices would you have doing that). I think you hit the only problem I have with receivers being the upgrade of them as new versions of HDMI come out.
- ericghildyal 1y ago
  The problem isn't the number of boxes plugged in, its that the TV has its own OS and built-in apps that people want to use that doesn't work with anything outside the TV. I don't think too many people have, for example, a Samsung TV and a Firestick and use the 2 interchangeably for different apps. I had this problem until the Samsung interface got too unbearably slow (6 year old tv), so I just bought a Google TV and that goes through my receiver's HDMI in port. Before this update, I was using optical out from the TV into my receiver, but the quality was noticeably degraded. I'm lucky I also don't use the radio function or a record player since that would just add to the chaos.
insane_dreamer 1y ago
Yes, but vinyl is making a strong comeback, and with that comes the need for traditional receivers. Even CDs are making a comeback -- as many indie artists publish CDs (and some do vinyl), which implies demand for standalone CD players with a receiver (like those made by the Denon, Onkyo, etc.) I have a HomePod in my living room and it gets used, but I also have a traditional receiver hooked up to my external speakers, with a turntable and CD player plugged into the receiver.
- SoleilAbsolu 1y ago
  I was going to say something similar - I think there will still be some market for high-quality audio preamp/receiver/mixer-type devices that have actual EQ/tone controls rather than endless menus, and focus on actual fidelity over features. Sony, Onkyo, Sansui & Yamaha are brands I've trusted for this over the years.
- baq 1y ago
  ‘The two things which brought me to vinyl is the expense and the inconvenience.’
timc3 1y ago
If you are really into AV they are more important than ever. Yes at first glance a TV does the switching, and the rest. But a modern receiver can be better. Better switching, better ability to handle multiple speakers ( particularly for Dolby Atmos ) including Room EQ. Alot of TVs only have 2 HDMI ports with all the latest features.

bombcar 1y ago

eARC or whatever it is really changed this. I don't need a receiver with buttons anymore, I just need one that handles eARC gracefully. We're about five years away from "no remotes" anymore, imo. As it is I only need to find the TV remote when something goes really wonky - and even then I can reset it by using the smart app to power cycle the outlet ;)

kyriakos 1y ago
eARC is amazing tech - when it works. I have a recent top of the line Samsung TV, and last year's 5.1 Samsung soundbar and even though both components are from the same brand there are some very frustrating times eARC fails. The rest of the time it works like magic.
- dylan604 1y ago
  I often get weird issues using the ARC, and have never tracked it down. I don't know if it is the audio device of the TV. Randomly, the audio will get all distorted for a random amount of time, and then suddenly it snaps back to normal. I never looked into the format to see if there's some sort of re-sync signal sent periodically that is part of ARC, but that would make sense to me based on observed behavior. When the audio gets weird, it's sounds like some sort of sample rate issue as the sound changes pitch, plays distorted, and goes out of sync with the video. My TV and audio equipment happen to have an optical connection and after switching to that away from ARC, the issue has gone away.
  - Marsymars 1y ago
    I had perfectly working eARC for over a year until I started getting random audio dropouts. After months, I figured out they were due to my Wii U coming out of standby and checking for updates on a different HDMI port. I think it worked fine before a firmware update to either my TV or my soundbar. Works fine again after disabling the Wii U's background updates.
- bombcar 1y ago
  There's a reason my tv was named "Slamsung" for awhile, and I didn't cry or yell at all when a kid put a toy through it. Thing was an absolute steaming pile of barely usable crap, so I went back to Vizio.
mikepurvis 1y ago
For a wall-mounted TV, it's still pretty essential to get a single cable run to it, vs needing to plug in each device individually. That said, it's curious how the multiplexing and audio amp functionality ended up in the same box. Really what it should be is: - a "remote" multiplexer comes in the box with my TV. It speaks HDMI/CEC to the TV telling it what input is active so that the TV's UI can reflect that and it can do things like switch between movie and game mode picture tuning. - the former AVR should become a purely eARC box with no buttons, not even a power button— it comes on on command of the TV, and adjusts its amplification volume according to the same eARC signals that a soundbar uses. Any initial calibration or speaker setup is done via a single-use phone app.
- tass 1y ago
  Monoprice make a HDMI switch that does a lot of this. No metadata for game mode, etc. as far as I know but I have: TV Apple TV on earc connection (HomePods for sound) Blackbird switch with all other devices. It can automatically switch between everything, but also has an IR remote for selecting an input.
  - mikepurvis 1y ago
    I've had bad experiences in the past with autodetecting switches, especially that tiny square one. But I should give this a shot— it would be awfully nice to just pipe everything directly to the TV and have the AVR in eARC-only mode.
- mitthrowaway2 1y ago
  Isn't it done this way because your TV might not be the only thing that wants to use your nice speakers?
  - mikepurvis 1y ago
    I guess that's true too, certainly in a living room setting if you've still got a vinyl player or whatever— but modern TVs have the audio streaming apps of course, plus they can be a cast target for anything on your phone. Maybe it also matters in a home theatre that's oriented around a projector rather than TV.

jauntywundrkind 1y ago

Really good call out, that the TV now often is the center of the AV experience, where-as the "receiver" (and amplifier) used to be driving the show. I really really wish there were digital audio decoder/processors available. It sucks so bad that you either buy a semi affordable consumer amplifier with 7.2.2 Dolby Atmos out and ok amplification, or if you want to step up you need a $4000+ processor whose only real job is decoding Dolby formats & turning them into analog outs for amplification. And there's almost no market, just a couple odd products like Emotiva's XMC-2: https://emotiva.com/products/xmc-2-plus-16-channel-9-1-6-discrete-dolby-atmos-dts-x-cinema-processor https://emotiva.com/products/xmc-2-plus-16-channel-9-1-6-dis... Opener standards like DTS would hopefully have some remedy here but if the source material isn't available it hardly matters. Hoping for actual open standards Immersive Audio Model and Format (iamf) and the Eclipsa Audio Format profiles atop that maybe some day give us good spatial audio that an rpi and multichannel sound out board can help us free ourselves from this vile civilization-scale Dolby tarpit with. https://opensource.googleblog.com/2025/01/introducing-eclipsa-audio-immersive-audio-for-everyone.html https://opensource.googleblog.com/2025/01/introducing-eclips...

Duwensatzaj 1y ago
MiniDSP? https://www.minidsp.com/ https://www.minidsp.com/ I used their stuff for a four-speaker audio setup but they do affordable home theater devices as well.
- bob1029 1y ago
  I use the miniDSP 2x4 in my office right now to split the LFE and filter out the room modes. It's amazing the difference you can make with a basic DSP engine and a tape measure.
- EnPissant 1y ago
  MiniDSP doesn't do any bitstream decoding.
- drodgers 1y ago
  They don't do any of the Dolby decoding and multi-channel mixing. Their closest product is the miniDSP Flex HT which is really about applying EQ to a bunch of channels (only 8, aka 7.1 or 5.2.1) after they've been decoded by an upstream receiver. It's pretty niche.

al_borland 1y ago

This is one of the things that kept me from getting a proper home theater setup. It always seemed like more complexity than I wanted under my TV. I could do it, but I simply objected to the idea. Not to mention, I like for someone to be able to come to my house and use my TV without taking a class first.

keoneflick 1y ago
Yes, definitely had that experience growing up of going over to someone's house and being unable to operate the very complex tower of black boxes. Could not agree more.
baq 1y ago
> It always seemed like more complexity than I wanted under my TV. the receiver doesn't need to be under the TV. it can sit in a basement. the question is if you really want to have proper sound or it's only a nice to have. > use my TV without taking a class first this is not an issue at all. HDMI ARC handles this.
skydhash 1y ago
I have a somewhat cheap Denon for 5.1 audio and after the initial sound setup, I've never needed to touch the settings other for adjusting the subwoofer volume. It's mostly Apple TV -> AVR -> TV, but I got other inputs like a PS4 and a PC for music. And it has Airplay, Bluetooth and Spotify Connect for anyone that wants to play from their phone. There's no need for a super-complicated setup for good sound.
- anton-c 1y ago
  When non-tech people(ie my folks) set one up, you end up with the 3 remote thing for a cable box, receiver, and streaming stuff. It's real wild - I just let them turn stuff on when I'm over there. I do audio work but they took my brothers recommendation on the home theater so I'm a bit 'you made your bed' about it haha.
  - skydhash 1y ago

tzs 1y ago

Any article posted here about smart TVs draws a large number of comments about limitations and annoyances of smart TV platforms. 90+% of the things people complain about would no longer be a problem if they got a traditional A/V receiver, plugged all their sources such as streaming boxes and game consoles into the receiver, and just used the smart TV as a monitor (and as a tuner if they watch OTA television). Until that is no longer the case there will be a role for traditional A/V receivers.

keoneflick 1y ago
You can have the TV still be a dumb monitor by using a TV box, but handle the switching of inputs if you have more than one input. The problem is that as video technology has advanced, it makes less and less sense to pay for video processing technology on a receiver. Your new TV supports HDMI 2.1 with 120hz and VRR for your new PS5. Does your receiver? Are you willing to spend $1000 to upgrade your receiver to simply correctly pass through that video signal, with little meaningful audio upgrade?
- timc3 1y ago
  But a lot only support that on 2 ports (though admittedly how many devices would you have doing that). I think you hit the only problem I have with receivers being the upgrade of them as new versions of HDMI come out.
ericghildyal 1y ago
The problem isn't the number of boxes plugged in, its that the TV has its own OS and built-in apps that people want to use that doesn't work with anything outside the TV. I don't think too many people have, for example, a Samsung TV and a Firestick and use the 2 interchangeably for different apps. I had this problem until the Samsung interface got too unbearably slow (6 year old tv), so I just bought a Google TV and that goes through my receiver's HDMI in port. Before this update, I was using optical out from the TV into my receiver, but the quality was noticeably degraded. I'm lucky I also don't use the radio function or a record player since that would just add to the chaos.

insane_dreamer 1y ago

Yes, but vinyl is making a strong comeback, and with that comes the need for traditional receivers. Even CDs are making a comeback -- as many indie artists publish CDs (and some do vinyl), which implies demand for standalone CD players with a receiver (like those made by the Denon, Onkyo, etc.) I have a HomePod in my living room and it gets used, but I also have a traditional receiver hooked up to my external speakers, with a turntable and CD player plugged into the receiver.

SoleilAbsolu 1y ago
I was going to say something similar - I think there will still be some market for high-quality audio preamp/receiver/mixer-type devices that have actual EQ/tone controls rather than endless menus, and focus on actual fidelity over features. Sony, Onkyo, Sansui & Yamaha are brands I've trusted for this over the years.
baq 1y ago
‘The two things which brought me to vinyl is the expense and the inconvenience.’

timc3 1y ago

If you are really into AV they are more important than ever. Yes at first glance a TV does the switching, and the rest. But a modern receiver can be better. Better switching, better ability to handle multiple speakers ( particularly for Dolby Atmos ) including Room EQ. Alot of TVs only have 2 HDMI ports with all the latest features.