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Like others mentioned, they describe the 'agonizing' problem, but don't explain how it works. The most charitable read is it's just plain old lazy journalism, t

by rdtsc 1y ago

Like others mentioned, they describe the 'agonizing' problem, but don't explain how it works. The most charitable read is it's just plain old lazy journalism, the least charitable is they are hiding something and dancing around the issue. What makes SF colleges susceptible to this? Are they implying it's incredibly easy for anyone to fill in a form online without any ID or verification and they get aid? Ok, why was that allowed? I am guessing it's to make it easier for people, to apply but also it looks good for enrollment -- "look at how many students we have". Being strict about verifying applications would mean also lower enrollment numbers. Some classes might not have enough students and would get cancelled. So someone there and possibly many someones looked the other way for many years. Let's take a look: https://www.ccsf.edu/apply-ccsf https://www.ccsf.edu/apply-ccsf > Starting February 2, 2024, CCCApply will be integrating identity verification through ID.me. ID.me will help protect student identities and prevent fraudulent students from taking seats in classes at CCSF. This is an optional feature for students. > For students who cannot use ID.me, click on “Verify Later” to skip the ID.me verification process. Ok, so still no need for any ID at all, it's all optional. Yes, they want homeless or undocumented people from no valid identity documentation (from country of origin), minors? to have access. Ok, that's laudable, but shouldn't there be some kind of in person verification at least. I guess "verify later" is that part and it's skipped. If you want to apply then you're funneled to either federal student aid, or California Dream act aid https://www.ccsf.edu/paying-college/financial-aid-office/how-apply-financial-aid https://www.ccsf.edu/paying-college/financial-aid-office/how... One of those probably make it easier to apply to with a bot and without a valid ID. It would be nice of the article did that research instead of relying on random people do to it for them.

Molitor5901 1y ago
I agree, I think it's dancing around the issue of identification, possibly undocumented persons, international students and cultural sensitivity. To push for greater identity verification could be interpreted by some as leaning in towards the mandatory ID political issue. Basically, schools don't want to be seen supporting mandatory ID because it makes them look aligned with the conservatives/Trump.
- QuadmasterXLII 1y ago
  It’s not really about looks. If you collect this data, and enroll a student who is seeking asylum, the current administration will attempt to get this data from you to send your student to life in prison in El Salvador. Which is an impact a bit beyond looking aligned. (Of course, reasonable people can disagree about whether life in prison is an appropriate punishment for seeking asylum through legal channels)
  - rdtsc 1y ago
    > If you collect this data, and enroll a student who is seeking asylum > a student who is seeking asylum, the current administration will attempt to get this data from you to send your student to life in prison in El Salvador. That could make sense at one level, yeah. But doesn't US CIS already have contact information for all who applied for asylum in order to process the asylum application? And besides, this doesn't seem like an issue that just started this year.
  - gotoeleven 1y ago
    Surely there is something that can be done in between "Giving them free taxpayer money without verifying that they exist" and "sending them to prison in el salvador for the crime of applying for asylum"
    - jfengel 1y ago
      Sure. But "sending them to prison for the crime of applying for asylum" is the position in power at the moment, and they don't seem to be amenable to compromise. So you accept that as a fait accompli and design your own actions around that.
      - rdtsc 1y ago
        > But "sending them to prison for the crime of applying for asylum" is the position in power at the moment, But if they applied for asylum doesn't the US govt already have their information in order to, well, process the asylum application. So, there is nothing for SF College to hide. Not saying that it all has to make sense, but that part doesn't seem to add up somehow.
rahimnathwani 1y ago
This article from 2014 explains it better: https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/pell-grant-fraud-awareness-white-collar-crime-challenges https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/pell-grant-fr...
- rdtsc 1y ago
  That's a good summary, thanks! It covers Pell Grants well. > A former college president and financial aid director in Atlanta used the names of former students and individuals who never attended the college to fraudulently obtain $5 million in grants.10 ... In another case, two former financial aid advisers and a tax preparation business operator in Chicago were charged with filing fake tax returns to obtain nearly $1.5 million in financial aid for 75 students over a 2-year period. That's interesting. Maybe it's worth taking a closer look at the college administration? They have both the access, the knowledge, the opportunity and even the official motive - to bolster admission numbers.
jccalhoun 1y ago
It isn't limited to California. I've encountered it as a professor at a midwest community college.
- rdtsc 1y ago
  Perhaps they are targeting community colleges in general, because of the proportion of online course there is higher and they usually have fewer IT and administrative workers to keep an eye on things. That's disheartening, community college, are gems and it help many people get up on their feet who can't afford to go to the larger universities. It's was sad to see in https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/pell-grant-fraud-awareness-white-collar-crime-challenges https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/pell-grant-fr... that in one case the administrators of the college were the criminals doing it.
  - jccalhoun 1y ago
    We are part of a system where each school is named College Name - City Name. And we were told that schools in towns earlier in the alphabet were getting hit before our school did.

by rdtsc 1y ago

Molitor5901 1y ago

I agree, I think it's dancing around the issue of identification, possibly undocumented persons, international students and cultural sensitivity. To push for greater identity verification could be interpreted by some as leaning in towards the mandatory ID political issue. Basically, schools don't want to be seen supporting mandatory ID because it makes them look aligned with the conservatives/Trump.

QuadmasterXLII 1y ago
It’s not really about looks. If you collect this data, and enroll a student who is seeking asylum, the current administration will attempt to get this data from you to send your student to life in prison in El Salvador. Which is an impact a bit beyond looking aligned. (Of course, reasonable people can disagree about whether life in prison is an appropriate punishment for seeking asylum through legal channels)
- rdtsc 1y ago
  > If you collect this data, and enroll a student who is seeking asylum > a student who is seeking asylum, the current administration will attempt to get this data from you to send your student to life in prison in El Salvador. That could make sense at one level, yeah. But doesn't US CIS already have contact information for all who applied for asylum in order to process the asylum application? And besides, this doesn't seem like an issue that just started this year.
- gotoeleven 1y ago
  Surely there is something that can be done in between "Giving them free taxpayer money without verifying that they exist" and "sending them to prison in el salvador for the crime of applying for asylum"
  - jfengel 1y ago
    Sure. But "sending them to prison for the crime of applying for asylum" is the position in power at the moment, and they don't seem to be amenable to compromise. So you accept that as a fait accompli and design your own actions around that.
    - rdtsc 1y ago
      > But "sending them to prison for the crime of applying for asylum" is the position in power at the moment, But if they applied for asylum doesn't the US govt already have their information in order to, well, process the asylum application. So, there is nothing for SF College to hide. Not saying that it all has to make sense, but that part doesn't seem to add up somehow.

rahimnathwani 1y ago

This article from 2014 explains it better: https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/pell-grant-fraud-awareness-white-collar-crime-challenges https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/pell-grant-fr...

rdtsc 1y ago
That's a good summary, thanks! It covers Pell Grants well. > A former college president and financial aid director in Atlanta used the names of former students and individuals who never attended the college to fraudulently obtain $5 million in grants.10 ... In another case, two former financial aid advisers and a tax preparation business operator in Chicago were charged with filing fake tax returns to obtain nearly $1.5 million in financial aid for 75 students over a 2-year period. That's interesting. Maybe it's worth taking a closer look at the college administration? They have both the access, the knowledge, the opportunity and even the official motive - to bolster admission numbers.

jccalhoun 1y ago

It isn't limited to California. I've encountered it as a professor at a midwest community college.

rdtsc 1y ago
Perhaps they are targeting community colleges in general, because of the proportion of online course there is higher and they usually have fewer IT and administrative workers to keep an eye on things. That's disheartening, community college, are gems and it help many people get up on their feet who can't afford to go to the larger universities. It's was sad to see in https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/pell-grant-fraud-awareness-white-collar-crime-challenges https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/pell-grant-fr... that in one case the administrators of the college were the criminals doing it.
- jccalhoun 1y ago
  We are part of a system where each school is named College Name - City Name. And we were told that schools in towns earlier in the alphabet were getting hit before our school did.