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I'm a current student at CSM and will be attending SFSU next semester after initially dropping out and working in tech for a decade. So I have some exposure to

I'm a current student at CSM and will be attending SFSU next semester after initially dropping out and working in tech for a decade. So I have some exposure to this and regularly discuss the topic with faculty and participate in remote courses where this phenomena is most likely to occur. While CSM is not City College, I think its a fair comparison. I really think this problem is being overblown and I am concerned politicians, voters, faculty, and students, will be negatively impacted by this kind of click bait journalism. This article sucks. > These “ghost students” are artificially intelligent agents or bots that pose as real students in order to steal millions of dollars of financial aid that could otherwise go to actual humans. This claim is completely unsubstantiated. It links to a generic and unrelated SF Gate article. As technologists this claim is plausible given the current state of AI technology, but can we please provide evidence - is it the interviewed teacher making this claim or the SF Gate writer? Are there other sources substantiating this claim? > A spokesperson for the California Community Colleges Chancellor’s Office directed SFGATE to a Public Records Request Act request to obtain the exact numbers. However, the office estimates that 0.21% of the system’s financial aid was fraudulently disbursed, the spokesperson said. 0.21% estimate of Community College disbursements. Not UC disbursements or CSU disbursements. Notice no monetary amount is mentioned. --- There are real issues with "flighty" students who don't engage with the material, prolific AI use for many if not most assignments, and some really broken incentives. There is also amazing free education for almost all income groups. Hard working students who have study groups and engage with faculty and eschew the use of AI because it detracts significantly from their education. Happy to answer any questions about my experience over the past year completing an Associate Degree for Transfer - it is an excellent opportunity for California residents and I encourage folks of all backgrounds and age groups to explore the services they offer. EDIT: Calmatters [1] reported ($10 million) in fraud from community colleges in 2024, that's my bad in my haste to post a response I missed this point. [1]: https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2025/04/financial-aid-fraud-2/#:~:text=In%20summary,stole%20in%20the%20prior%20year https://calmatters.org/education/higher-education/2025/04/fi...

SirFatty 1y ago
Sounds like something a ghost student would say.
- mistrial9 1y ago
  it is predictable to attack the student point of view, agree there. What is also predictable is that casual, drive-by "concerned voters" who are typically decades past their own lean years in school, and care more about paying their own taxes than concern for young adults. The fraud here is connected to the administrators of the financial aid! They "slow walk" investigations (guess) since they are paid by the number of students who are active, and those numbers plummeted during Covid-19 and b) they are financially connected to the flow of money they look after. Community colleges are wildly varying in rigor and skill of administering. The whole political cover here is that casual observers (who might vote) quickly place blame on students or "distant others" .. How many mid-level accountants are owning vacation homes with extra money while students actually starve in high cost of living California? etc
aoki 1y ago
IIRC to collect Pell you have to be enrolled past the withdrawal deadline. The CCs are keeping the disbursement fraud rate low by filtering initial admissions (they are estimating >30% fraudulent applications) and then kicking out bots before disbursement. The point of these articles is that this is costly: CCC admin has to spend >$100M on IT on the admissions end, the faculty have to police their online courses in a way that is really uncomfortable (false positives mean you kick out a real student), and even unsuccessful bots take up seats that then go unused once you pass the add deadline. The CCs need reform of the disbursement process or these costs will keep getting higher.

SirFatty 1y ago

Sounds like something a ghost student would say.

mistrial9 1y ago
it is predictable to attack the student point of view, agree there. What is also predictable is that casual, drive-by "concerned voters" who are typically decades past their own lean years in school, and care more about paying their own taxes than concern for young adults. The fraud here is connected to the administrators of the financial aid! They "slow walk" investigations (guess) since they are paid by the number of students who are active, and those numbers plummeted during Covid-19 and b) they are financially connected to the flow of money they look after. Community colleges are wildly varying in rigor and skill of administering. The whole political cover here is that casual observers (who might vote) quickly place blame on students or "distant others" .. How many mid-level accountants are owning vacation homes with extra money while students actually starve in high cost of living California? etc

aoki 1y ago

IIRC to collect Pell you have to be enrolled past the withdrawal deadline. The CCs are keeping the disbursement fraud rate low by filtering initial admissions (they are estimating >30% fraudulent applications) and then kicking out bots before disbursement. The point of these articles is that this is costly: CCC admin has to spend >$100M on IT on the admissions end, the faculty have to police their online courses in a way that is really uncomfortable (false positives mean you kick out a real student), and even unsuccessful bots take up seats that then go unused once you pass the add deadline. The CCs need reform of the disbursement process or these costs will keep getting higher.