10 ms·

I'd rather solve one of two major health problems (excess fat and insufficient activity) than neither of them. For the morbidly obese, fat loss makes more acti

by xnx 2y ago

I'd rather solve one of two major health problems (excess fat and insufficient activity) than neither of them. For the morbidly obese, fat loss makes more activity much more feasible.

betterThanTexas 2y ago
[flagged]
- xrisk 2y ago
  As parent says, would you rather have “undisciplined” obese people or undisciplined non-obese people? Because those are the realistic choices here.
  - betterThanTexas 2y ago
    Someone else's lack of discipline has a far more negative effect on my life than their obesity does. So I reject this choice entirely—I'd rather we stop looking for easy fixes to hard problems. I don't judge people for taking ozempic, but I am absolutely confused why people see this as a massive win for society. We're just doubling down on our dysfunction.
    - chneu 2y ago
      This is just not addressing the issue. What's causing the hormone issues? Who cares. Throw a pill at it and we can forget about it.
      - betterThanTexas 2y ago
        > Throw a pill at it and we can forget about it. I don't really see myself ever forgiving the west for prioritizing medication over holistic treatment. I've been through way too many mental health institutions to ever trust medicated treatment.
    - kelseyfrog 2y ago
      I agree with you in the same way that casts don't fix the underlying problem - a broken bone, or band-aids don't fix the issue - a cut. Until people start to treat the real issue and stop relying on crutches, we're just covering up the problem.
    - busyant 2y ago
      So, what's your solution to "lack of self discipline"? What is the physical basis for lack of self discipline?
      - betterThanTexas 2y ago
        > So, what's your solution to "lack of self discipline"? IDK, wanting to be alive and happy? > What is the physical basis for lack of self discipline? That's just a category error. I just don't see obesity as worth caring about on an individual-level compared to the social dysfunction that produces it. If we can only address problems on an individual-level I don't really see why I should expect anything positive from society—that's just not rational.
        busyant 2y ago
        You just avoided answering the questions entirely. But you still want to pass judgement using your ill-defined concept of "self discipline."
    - umbra07 2y ago
      We can live in the world where people don't take GLP-1s, and there are a lot of fat, unhealthy, and undisciplined people. Or we can live in the world where people do take GLP-1s, and there are a lot of not-fat, healthier, still-undisciplined people. I would rather live in the second world. I don't understand why you want to live in the first world (over the second world).
- SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
  Ozempic reduces addictive behaviors, it's effectively a drug to improve discipline more than directly a weight loss drug.
  - betterThanTexas 2y ago
    I don't think you can call should discipline if it implies a dependence on industry. What concerns me is how people will behave when industry leaves our lives.
    - JoshTriplett 2y ago
      > What concerns me is how people will behave when industry leaves our lives. If that happened, many many people would die of preventable medical conditions, or starvation, or many other causes. Let's avoid that.
      - betterThanTexas 2y ago
        > Let's avoid that. Good luck.
    - matthewcford 2y ago
      I've tried it, as even a low dose gives the person much more willpower to make other life changes, which have nothing to do with the effects of feeling fuller. Ozempic and other GLP-1 agonists can: Modulate dopamine release in brain regions associated with reward and motivation, such as the mesolimbic system and nucleus accumbens. Reduce the rewarding effects of food and possibly other addictive substances, which may explain the increased sense of control or willpower. Some studies in animals show that semaglutide can alter dopamine metabolism and suppress dopamine-driven behaviors.
  - jorvi 2y ago
    It is a drug that suppresses addictive behavior. Developing discipline is developing the ability to delay gratification for greater reward. Taking away the (need for) gratification means not having to learn the ability to delay.
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  Is discipline why some other countries have a lot more skinny people than the US? Do they lose that discipline when they move to the US, and typically pack on weight? Like, is there a an anti-discipline barrier they have to walk through to get in? It really doesn't look like discipline's a major factor in how a population stays in a healthy weight range, so it'd be surprising if it merits being the main focus of any effort to make a fat country skinnier.
  - itsoktocry 2y ago
    >Is discipline why some other countries have a lot more skinny people than the US? Yeah, I think it is. It's easier to be in bad shape than good shape. I'm curious what you think it is?
    - pmarreck 2y ago
      It's 4 inputs, actually. 1) The culture (active, passive). Example: Germany, where people bike a lot more since gas costs so much; and ironically, their shitty Internet and cell service negatively impacts the phenomenon of everyone being glued to a screen. I think they're actually proud of it, at this point? Anyway, they're WAY fitter (despite, or perhaps partly because of, eating meats for breakfast instead of cereals!) 2) The food environment (preservatives, fructose, hidden carbs, bad artificial sweeteners, salts in everything, big serving portions, or more all-natural stuff) 3) Genes- There are literally over 500 discovered that affect your equilibrium weight. 251 genetic markers have been linked to sport-related traits (though only about half have been replicated in multiple studies). 13 genes have been identified so far that affect how the body responds to different types of exercise, including cardiovascular fitness and muscular strength. 4) And finally, there is willpower/discipline. Which is a finite resource, by the way, that gets resupplied by sleep and downtime, and which often needs to be drawn on for other things (like work and childrearing). Think of it as a dial. In the middle, you stay the same weight. Tilt it slightly to the right (which is all too easy to do), and you are on a weight-gain schedule. Tilt it slightly to the left, and you will lose over time. If you're working against (1), (2), and (3), then (4) becomes MUCH harder to do.
    - alabastervlog 2y ago

by xnx 2y ago

I'd rather solve one of two major health problems (excess fat and insufficient activity) than neither of them. For the morbidly obese, fat loss makes more activity much more feasible.

betterThanTexas 2y ago

[flagged]

xrisk 2y ago
As parent says, would you rather have “undisciplined” obese people or undisciplined non-obese people? Because those are the realistic choices here.
- betterThanTexas 2y ago
  Someone else's lack of discipline has a far more negative effect on my life than their obesity does. So I reject this choice entirely—I'd rather we stop looking for easy fixes to hard problems. I don't judge people for taking ozempic, but I am absolutely confused why people see this as a massive win for society. We're just doubling down on our dysfunction.
  - chneu 2y ago
    This is just not addressing the issue. What's causing the hormone issues? Who cares. Throw a pill at it and we can forget about it.
    - betterThanTexas 2y ago
      > Throw a pill at it and we can forget about it. I don't really see myself ever forgiving the west for prioritizing medication over holistic treatment. I've been through way too many mental health institutions to ever trust medicated treatment.
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    I agree with you in the same way that casts don't fix the underlying problem - a broken bone, or band-aids don't fix the issue - a cut. Until people start to treat the real issue and stop relying on crutches, we're just covering up the problem.
  - busyant 2y ago
    So, what's your solution to "lack of self discipline"? What is the physical basis for lack of self discipline?
    - betterThanTexas 2y ago
      > So, what's your solution to "lack of self discipline"? IDK, wanting to be alive and happy? > What is the physical basis for lack of self discipline? That's just a category error. I just don't see obesity as worth caring about on an individual-level compared to the social dysfunction that produces it. If we can only address problems on an individual-level I don't really see why I should expect anything positive from society—that's just not rational.
      - busyant 2y ago
        You just avoided answering the questions entirely. But you still want to pass judgement using your ill-defined concept of "self discipline."
  - umbra07 2y ago
    We can live in the world where people don't take GLP-1s, and there are a lot of fat, unhealthy, and undisciplined people. Or we can live in the world where people do take GLP-1s, and there are a lot of not-fat, healthier, still-undisciplined people. I would rather live in the second world. I don't understand why you want to live in the first world (over the second world).
SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
Ozempic reduces addictive behaviors, it's effectively a drug to improve discipline more than directly a weight loss drug.
- betterThanTexas 2y ago
  I don't think you can call should discipline if it implies a dependence on industry. What concerns me is how people will behave when industry leaves our lives.
  - JoshTriplett 2y ago
    > What concerns me is how people will behave when industry leaves our lives. If that happened, many many people would die of preventable medical conditions, or starvation, or many other causes. Let's avoid that.
    - betterThanTexas 2y ago
      > Let's avoid that. Good luck.
  - matthewcford 2y ago
    I've tried it, as even a low dose gives the person much more willpower to make other life changes, which have nothing to do with the effects of feeling fuller. Ozempic and other GLP-1 agonists can: Modulate dopamine release in brain regions associated with reward and motivation, such as the mesolimbic system and nucleus accumbens. Reduce the rewarding effects of food and possibly other addictive substances, which may explain the increased sense of control or willpower. Some studies in animals show that semaglutide can alter dopamine metabolism and suppress dopamine-driven behaviors.
- jorvi 2y ago
  It is a drug that suppresses addictive behavior. Developing discipline is developing the ability to delay gratification for greater reward. Taking away the (need for) gratification means not having to learn the ability to delay.
alabastervlog 2y ago
Is discipline why some other countries have a lot more skinny people than the US? Do they lose that discipline when they move to the US, and typically pack on weight? Like, is there a an anti-discipline barrier they have to walk through to get in? It really doesn't look like discipline's a major factor in how a population stays in a healthy weight range, so it'd be surprising if it merits being the main focus of any effort to make a fat country skinnier.
- itsoktocry 2y ago
  >Is discipline why some other countries have a lot more skinny people than the US? Yeah, I think it is. It's easier to be in bad shape than good shape. I'm curious what you think it is?
  - pmarreck 2y ago
    It's 4 inputs, actually. 1) The culture (active, passive). Example: Germany, where people bike a lot more since gas costs so much; and ironically, their shitty Internet and cell service negatively impacts the phenomenon of everyone being glued to a screen. I think they're actually proud of it, at this point? Anyway, they're WAY fitter (despite, or perhaps partly because of, eating meats for breakfast instead of cereals!) 2) The food environment (preservatives, fructose, hidden carbs, bad artificial sweeteners, salts in everything, big serving portions, or more all-natural stuff) 3) Genes- There are literally over 500 discovered that affect your equilibrium weight. 251 genetic markers have been linked to sport-related traits (though only about half have been replicated in multiple studies). 13 genes have been identified so far that affect how the body responds to different types of exercise, including cardiovascular fitness and muscular strength. 4) And finally, there is willpower/discipline. Which is a finite resource, by the way, that gets resupplied by sleep and downtime, and which often needs to be drawn on for other things (like work and childrearing). Think of it as a dial. In the middle, you stay the same weight. Tilt it slightly to the right (which is all too easy to do), and you are on a weight-gain schedule. Tilt it slightly to the left, and you will lose over time. If you're working against (1), (2), and (3), then (4) becomes MUCH harder to do.
  - alabastervlog 2y ago