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You can still use paid version if you want to turn telemetry off. With the free version, you can either use it and say thanks, or not use it at all.
by pasoevi 1y ago
You can still use paid version if you want to turn telemetry off. With the free version, you can either use it and say thanks, or not use it at all.
- badsectoracula 1y agoIndeed, this is one of the various options one has. Another option is to not use it and be vocal against telemetry, hopefully convincing others to do the same while dissuading other developers (especially in a forum like Hacker News where people that build stuff gather) from adding it on their products.
- pasoevi 1y agoI wouldn't take people seriously who are vocal against telemetry in a product which has paid version with the option to turn telemetry off. Such people would be vocal against paying for the work others do. Also, if properly anonymised, telemetry isn't the devil people make it to be.
- badsectoracula 1y ago> I wouldn't take people seriously who are vocal against telemetry in a product which has paid version with the option to turn telemetry off. You are conflating two separate things, a product does not need telemetry to function and if telemetry is needed it can be opt-in. Similarly a product does not need to be free to have telemetry nor does it need to be paid to not have telemetry, as i already wrote these two are completely separate. > Such people would be vocal against paying for the work others do. Again you are conflating two completely separate things: people being concerned about the privacy implications of telemetry (both directly and indirectly, see below) and people who are against about paying others for their work. > Also, if properly anonymised, telemetry isn't the devil people make it to be. Even if anonymized (which is something you can only guarantee for open source projects that either you or someone you trust has checked they do such anonymization properly - and also you either build yourself from the source that was checked or you used a binary from a reproducible build) having telemetry in place still creates and reinforces a precedent of it being acceptable which in turn can be used to excuse other programs doing the same but those programs actually not caring about doing proper anonymization (at best) or even outright spying on you (at worst). Besides anonymized data can still be used in conjunction with other data to be deanonymized and the best way to protect users from this is to not collect that data in the first place.
- pasoevi 1y agoI'm not conflating these two things. I didn't say they have to have telemetry to keep it free. All I am saying is, if you have the option to pay and decide whether you give them telemetry or not, then there is no reason being vocal about them giving you more for free. It is a company and they need to make profit. If more users with telemetry enabled gives them more data that they can use to indirectly increase their profit, I only applaud them. If they stopped allowing to turn telemetry off for the product in paid version as well, then you would have a valid point. That said, nothing wrong with being vocal about privacy and high standards in collecting usage.
- buggerme 1y ago[flagged]
- throwaway51034 1y agoPrivacy is a fundamental human right, not something you get to withhold from people until they give you money. Yes, I could pay them to get a product that lets me disable telemetry. I'd much rather just use something else, so I don't have to fund their unethical business practices.
- bigstrat2003 1y agoThat is an extremely disingenuous framing of the topic. They make a product, which you can pay money for. If you prefer, they will also let you pay by sending them usage telemetry. In neither case are you being deprived of a human right or extorted in any way - it's a transaction where you receive a benefit in exchange for something you give to them.
- unclad5968 1y agoGenuine question. Why do you care if other people agree with you about telemetry? I almost always enable telemetry on anything I don't believe will serve me ads.
- pjmlp 1y agoDemocracy is the dictorship of the majority, thus when majority is fine with telemetry disabling it won't be an option any longer.
- blibble 1y agofacebook were certainly slapped down for attempting "consent or pay" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_or_pay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_or_pay "anonymised" data is often extremely easy to de-anonymise
- KronisLV 1y agoCompared to most UI dark patterns and scummy tactics to get you to "consent" (actually tricking you into agreeing, because nobody can't be bothered to jump through like a bunch of legalese and dialogs), them just giving you that choice of straight up paying feels better. Not really interested in their services, but at least that sort of payment would let me expect less trickery in the future. > Critics of this consent model have called it "pay-or-okay", claiming that the monthly fee is disproportional and that users are not able to withdraw their consent to tracking as easily as it is given, which the GDPR requires. Massimiliano Gelmi, a data protection lawyer at NOYB, has stated that "The law is clear, withdrawing consent must be as easy as giving it in the first place. It is painfully obvious that paying €251,88 per year to withdraw consent is not as easy as clicking an 'Okay' button to accept the tracking." Under this model, you'd just have to refuse service to everyone who doesn't pay (killing your platform) or let people partake in your platform with no revenue off of them (killing your platform). Neither seems reasonable from the perspective of that business? Are they just supposed to find other ways of monetizing their users or perish then?
- ndriscoll 1y agoYes, declaring that to be illegitimate is the point. Just like we declare polluting rivers to be illegitimate despite it being good for business.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- sofixa 1y ago> anonymised" data is often extremely easy to de-anonymise If it's location data, yes. If it's your IDE usage stats (plugins, file types, whatever), not really.
- ndriscoll 1y agoIt's nonetheless useful for people to warn others about spyware. You can find the tradeoff acceptable (or be willing/able to put the necessary isolation in place) while thanking the other commenter for the heads up.
- chrsw 1y agoI wasn't aware they were using telemetry in the free versions until this thread. Why I didn't just assume that a free service or product offered by a for-profit company isn't doing _something_ to extract value is beyond me.
- riquito 1y agoNot that people are obligated to use IntelliJ IDEs, but it's sad that it boils down to "You can have privacy if you can afford it". But admittedly is better to have the option to use it than not being able to use it at all
- atemerev 1y agoTheir telemetry promises not to collect private data. Yes, your code will probably used for training their models. But so it would be if you publish it on GitHub.
- ndriscoll 1y agoAll data on my computer is private unless I specifically make it public. Data thieves like to make a rhetorical sleight of hand where they say they're not really collecting data about you (this happens especially with the topic of "differential privacy"), but that's just gaslighting (i.e. trying to manipulate you into thinking you simply don't understand what they are doing). e.g. I'm not willing to share noisy correlations about my preferences either. That information is private, and it is information, or they wouldn't want it.
- atemerev 1y agoThen you are free to not use their product. My privacy is indeed differential. I am willing to give them the information on my coding patterns and even non-commercial code for a free license, if it is not linked to my identity. This is a fair exchange. I am not willing to do this if they will use this information to sell me ads, or sell it (unless properly anonymized) to some other company. And most certainly I won't agree if they collect any information beyond what's happen in the IDE. Not _everything_ I do on my computer is fully private. I apply much stricter standards to things that are _really_ private. But not everything is like this. This comment is public. It will probably be used to train yet another LLM. I am fine with that.
- ndriscoll 1y ago
- rustc 1y agoHow is this not illegal under GDPR? I thought asking users to pay money to not be tracked is not allowed.
- wiseowise 1y agoIt’s anonymized, GDPR doesn’t apply.
- varispeed 1y agoSo if you are poor, you are ripe for getting your data mined. Excellent.