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> Access to the Energy Star reviews requires a 'subscription' too, in the form of a tax. You're failing to consider the alternative no-EnergyStar scenario -- h
by ethbr1 2y ago
> Access to the Energy Star reviews requires a 'subscription' too, in the form of a tax.
You're failing to consider the alternative no-EnergyStar scenario -- higher aggregate electricity demand, requiring more power plants, so everyone pays more for power.
Either you pay pennies to promote efficiency, or you pay quarters for energy infrastructure.
- mike_hearn 2y agoEfficiency savings make no difference to aggregated demand so that is irrelevant. See Jevon's Paradox, which absolutely applies to electricity.
- ethbr1 2y agoSo you're saying people will install two water heaters if they buy a more efficient one? Not sure this is the elastic droid that paradox is looking for.
- mike_hearn 2y agoNo, that's not what I'm saying. Jevon's Paradox has a good Wikipedia page that describes the problem. Efficiency improvements don't reduce consumption in aggregate, because the lower demand causes lower prices that then unlock new use cases that create more demand that pushes up usage again.
- ethbr1 2y agoAs the wikipedia page points out, this assumes a highly price elastic good. Household energy use is not such a good, because most uses have fixed utility. Very few people are going to cool their house down to 10C because the price of cooling to 15C decreased. Nor is their overall energy use budget-capped. (Outside of low income AC and/or heating use cases)
- mike_hearn 2y agoYou started by talking about electricity usage, which is fungible and elastic. There's no dedicated grid for household electricity so Jevons Paradox certainly applies.
- ethbr1 2y ago> Nor is their overall energy use budget-capped. (Outside of low income AC and/or heating use cases)
- snkzxbs 2y agoRequiring more power plants doesn’t mean that power will be more expensive. Power will only be more expensive if we get more demand and less supply. If supply (power plants) increases linearly with demand there won’t be a price difference.
- ethbr1 2y agoPower doesn't work as simply as that. Example: as a regulated utility it will often cost more per unit if underused vs optimal generating supply (which has already been passed through into rates) Additionally, the generating source heavily influences ultimate cost.