4 ms·

Holy cow. What domain is this? Web-based probably?

pixl97 1y ago
Npm/node_modules is typically one of the worst offenders, but programmers can do this with any import/library based system.
- thewebguyd 1y ago
  > Npm/node_modules is typically one of the worst offenders, but programmers can do this with any import/library based system. You can, but I think this thread speaks volumes about the problem with the JavaScript/NPM ecosystem as a whole vs. pretty much any other. We need something else for the web. The only reason we have 200+ NPM packages for a blank project is because JavaScript is atrocious and has almost nothing built-in. We got crap like LeftPad, isodd, is-array, etc. because of the language. Most of what NPM will pull in on any new web front end project is likely already part of the standard library in C#/dotnet, or Java, Go, etc. But you could go further back and say it's not javascript's fault, it's the fault of trying to hammer the web into doing things it was never designed to do in the first place. But, we insisted on making it an application delivery platform, and now we're suffering the consequences of that. I'm hopeful for WASM, but ideally I'd love to see a resurgence of native apps.
  - 1over137 1y ago
    The problem with native apps is they are (mostly) locked behind "stores" run by Big Tech.
    - hombre_fatal 1y ago
      And they're opaque. You have to mitm proxy to even see if they're making requests to who knows where. They run with too many privileges. You can't block ads. You can't link to them. Meanwhile, the web runs in a web browser. You have a network bar. You can inspect element. You can inject Javascript. You can run your own code inside people's apps. The former scenario isn't better than the latter scenario just because some people build their website with too many NPM dependencies.
      - 1over137 1y ago
        I take your point, but a lot of that needn't be the case. Native apps can have lesser privileges with sandboxing, you can inject code if your OS doesn't forbid it, etc. A lot of this is just in how many of are native apps are, not how they must be.
        hombre_fatal 1y ago
        True. But one of the biggest wins of the web is that it's how things are, and it was only a historical fluke of luck that things panned out this way. As it's often said, there's no way the concept of a web browser would be feasible in today's walled garden app store norms. You mean a god app than can run remote, arbitrary code? And it lets you sideload arbitrary extensions that can do things like block ads and mutate apps? The only reason it's allowed is because the web was ubiquitous by the time computing became so highly controlled. So we shouldn't be quick to dismiss it, despite its warts.
whstl 1y ago
Could be a Hello World React app using the legacy creator-tool :/ Check this out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39019001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39019001 Of course, this is the whole environment except for Node.js itself. And Vite has improved it. But there are definitely some tools that are worse than others.

Npm/node_modules is typically one of the worst offenders, but programmers can do this with any import/library based system.

thewebguyd 1y ago
> Npm/node_modules is typically one of the worst offenders, but programmers can do this with any import/library based system. You can, but I think this thread speaks volumes about the problem with the JavaScript/NPM ecosystem as a whole vs. pretty much any other. We need something else for the web. The only reason we have 200+ NPM packages for a blank project is because JavaScript is atrocious and has almost nothing built-in. We got crap like LeftPad, isodd, is-array, etc. because of the language. Most of what NPM will pull in on any new web front end project is likely already part of the standard library in C#/dotnet, or Java, Go, etc. But you could go further back and say it's not javascript's fault, it's the fault of trying to hammer the web into doing things it was never designed to do in the first place. But, we insisted on making it an application delivery platform, and now we're suffering the consequences of that. I'm hopeful for WASM, but ideally I'd love to see a resurgence of native apps.
- 1over137 1y ago
  The problem with native apps is they are (mostly) locked behind "stores" run by Big Tech.
  - hombre_fatal 1y ago
    And they're opaque. You have to mitm proxy to even see if they're making requests to who knows where. They run with too many privileges. You can't block ads. You can't link to them. Meanwhile, the web runs in a web browser. You have a network bar. You can inspect element. You can inject Javascript. You can run your own code inside people's apps. The former scenario isn't better than the latter scenario just because some people build their website with too many NPM dependencies.
    - 1over137 1y ago
      I take your point, but a lot of that needn't be the case. Native apps can have lesser privileges with sandboxing, you can inject code if your OS doesn't forbid it, etc. A lot of this is just in how many of are native apps are, not how they must be.
      - hombre_fatal 1y ago
        True. But one of the biggest wins of the web is that it's how things are, and it was only a historical fluke of luck that things panned out this way. As it's often said, there's no way the concept of a web browser would be feasible in today's walled garden app store norms. You mean a god app than can run remote, arbitrary code? And it lets you sideload arbitrary extensions that can do things like block ads and mutate apps? The only reason it's allowed is because the web was ubiquitous by the time computing became so highly controlled. So we shouldn't be quick to dismiss it, despite its warts.

whstl 1y ago

Could be a Hello World React app using the legacy creator-tool :/ Check this out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39019001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39019001 Of course, this is the whole environment except for Node.js itself. And Vite has improved it. But there are definitely some tools that are worse than others.