5 ms·

>delusions of grandeur How do you come to this conclusion - have you been studying Putins' speeches in the last 3 years, or analysed some of the policies that

by aa-jv 1y ago

>delusions of grandeur How do you come to this conclusion - have you been studying Putins' speeches in the last 3 years, or analysed some of the policies that led to this conclusion? Did you see his recent interview on Croatian TV where he discusses this specifically? EDIT: hey downvoters - is it not valid to study world leaders' directly rather than going through a third party .. ?

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> have you been studying Putins' speeches in the last 3 years, or analysed some of the policies that led to this conclusion? Yes. By his ex ante metrics, his war has thoroughly backfired. By the current aims, it's absolutely delusionally revanchist.
- aa-jv 1y ago
  >ex ante metrics So, based on potential future events, you've come to this conclusion. But I don't see any current evidence to support the claim. Can you clarify your position? You saw his interview on Croatia TV recently? His statements refute your position.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > based on potential future events, you've come to this conclusion No. I'm saying by the goals he set out before the war, he has failed. > You saw his interview on Croatia TV recently? His statements refute your position Putin is sort of like Trump in that he messages multiple messages. We cannot know what is in his mind. But Putin has repeatedly made revanchist nonsense statements about Russia's sphere of influence and imperial downfall. He's also said that's not what Russia wants. But that's (a) recent and (b) unsubstantiated by the facts ont the ground.
    - aa-jv 1y ago
      >No. I'm saying by the goals he set out before the war, he has failed. Fine, but what were those goals, where/when did he set them out and what is the current status? I'd like to study this issue myself - so any sources you can provide? >We cannot know what is in his mind. Yet you claim to know, which is why I'm interested - if you don't believe his words, what basis do you have to make the assertion that you know his real intentions? As far as I can tell (and I am merely hours away from the Ukraine border), the land he has occupied is precisely what he set out to achieve, and it doesn't look like that is about to change any time soon. So please, share your references. I'd quite like to understand how you can make such conclusions with such certainty, while doubting the words of the very individual responsible for it. I remain unconvinced you've observed any of his recent public statements with regards to Russia's position with Europe.
      - sofixa 1y ago
        > As far as I can tell (and I am merely hours away from the Ukraine border), the land he has occupied is precisely what he set out to achieve, and it doesn't look like that is about to change any time soon. Is that why the best Russian forces attacked Kyiv, including a paratroop landing to capture Antonov airport, which is in the Kyiv suburbs? You don't do that kind of thing if you're not expecting to capture the city. Also, why did Russia need to mobilise if it got what it wanted? Add in Russia's claims that they're just removing the Ukrainian government, which it accused of being neo-Nazis. > Putin's address was aired during an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council on the situation in Ukraine that began on the evening of 23 February.[14][15] At the meeting itself, Vasily Nebenzya, Russia's representative to the UN, stated: "We are not carrying out aggression against the Ukrainian people, but against the group that seized power in Kyiv."[16] > Our plans do not include the occupation of Ukrainian territories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_conducting_a_special_military_operation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_conducting_a_special_milita... That's called delusional backpedaling by both the Russians, and people like you who seem intent on giving them the benefit of the doubt for no apparent reason. Russia is not a rational actor, and no, nothing that has happened has been to plan, unless you believe their plan included having to mobilise, and losing the Black Sea fleet to a country with no navy.
- impossiblefork 1y ago
  Same assessment here. There is absolutely an excessively punitive element in Russian policy. I only really saw it due to their actions in the NKAO (peacekeepers simply letting Azerbajijan starve people, and then doing nothing about an invasion), but it's clearly a thing also in the Ukraine war.
jajko 1y ago
You mean his PR which is pretty pathetic but I presume its fine with... say less educated folks downing bottles of vodka like there is no tomorrow for whom its intended? Bunch of lies, massive ego masturbation, constant feeling of being hurt by various external enemies (thats sort of russian trademark), a massive inferiority complex while expressing grandeur and superiority above others completely ignoring the fact russia as a nation, culture, philosophy, system etc. is the most hated one globally. They view even rest of slavic megatribe as subhumans variously not worthy of independence, freedom, self-determination. Just look at their actions, his talk or his lapdog peskov' doesn't matter. The important thing you seem to miss to look primarily on actions, not some empty PR for simpler folks. Dude, I've been enslaved by russian/soviet military forces most of my childhood, I know very well what they bring to any society and how they shape it to their liking. Just a typical sociopathic dictator out of touch with reality, nothing special there. The fact he is smart and put few sentences together doesn't matter at all, he is a vicious mass murderer completely out of touch with reality internally and externally, and a horrible manager of russia, damaging it severely and destroying any respect that nation and culture ever had. This started well before covid but that period cut him off completely.

by aa-jv 1y ago

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> have you been studying Putins' speeches in the last 3 years, or analysed some of the policies that led to this conclusion? Yes. By his ex ante metrics, his war has thoroughly backfired. By the current aims, it's absolutely delusionally revanchist.

aa-jv 1y ago
>ex ante metrics So, based on potential future events, you've come to this conclusion. But I don't see any current evidence to support the claim. Can you clarify your position? You saw his interview on Croatia TV recently? His statements refute your position.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > based on potential future events, you've come to this conclusion No. I'm saying by the goals he set out before the war, he has failed. > You saw his interview on Croatia TV recently? His statements refute your position Putin is sort of like Trump in that he messages multiple messages. We cannot know what is in his mind. But Putin has repeatedly made revanchist nonsense statements about Russia's sphere of influence and imperial downfall. He's also said that's not what Russia wants. But that's (a) recent and (b) unsubstantiated by the facts ont the ground.
  - aa-jv 1y ago
    >No. I'm saying by the goals he set out before the war, he has failed. Fine, but what were those goals, where/when did he set them out and what is the current status? I'd like to study this issue myself - so any sources you can provide? >We cannot know what is in his mind. Yet you claim to know, which is why I'm interested - if you don't believe his words, what basis do you have to make the assertion that you know his real intentions? As far as I can tell (and I am merely hours away from the Ukraine border), the land he has occupied is precisely what he set out to achieve, and it doesn't look like that is about to change any time soon. So please, share your references. I'd quite like to understand how you can make such conclusions with such certainty, while doubting the words of the very individual responsible for it. I remain unconvinced you've observed any of his recent public statements with regards to Russia's position with Europe.
    - sofixa 1y ago
      > As far as I can tell (and I am merely hours away from the Ukraine border), the land he has occupied is precisely what he set out to achieve, and it doesn't look like that is about to change any time soon. Is that why the best Russian forces attacked Kyiv, including a paratroop landing to capture Antonov airport, which is in the Kyiv suburbs? You don't do that kind of thing if you're not expecting to capture the city. Also, why did Russia need to mobilise if it got what it wanted? Add in Russia's claims that they're just removing the Ukrainian government, which it accused of being neo-Nazis. > Putin's address was aired during an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council on the situation in Ukraine that began on the evening of 23 February.[14][15] At the meeting itself, Vasily Nebenzya, Russia's representative to the UN, stated: "We are not carrying out aggression against the Ukrainian people, but against the group that seized power in Kyiv."[16] > Our plans do not include the occupation of Ukrainian territories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_conducting_a_special_military_operation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_conducting_a_special_milita... That's called delusional backpedaling by both the Russians, and people like you who seem intent on giving them the benefit of the doubt for no apparent reason. Russia is not a rational actor, and no, nothing that has happened has been to plan, unless you believe their plan included having to mobilise, and losing the Black Sea fleet to a country with no navy.
impossiblefork 1y ago
Same assessment here. There is absolutely an excessively punitive element in Russian policy. I only really saw it due to their actions in the NKAO (peacekeepers simply letting Azerbajijan starve people, and then doing nothing about an invasion), but it's clearly a thing also in the Ukraine war.

jajko 1y ago

You mean his PR which is pretty pathetic but I presume its fine with... say less educated folks downing bottles of vodka like there is no tomorrow for whom its intended? Bunch of lies, massive ego masturbation, constant feeling of being hurt by various external enemies (thats sort of russian trademark), a massive inferiority complex while expressing grandeur and superiority above others completely ignoring the fact russia as a nation, culture, philosophy, system etc. is the most hated one globally. They view even rest of slavic megatribe as subhumans variously not worthy of independence, freedom, self-determination. Just look at their actions, his talk or his lapdog peskov' doesn't matter. The important thing you seem to miss to look primarily on actions, not some empty PR for simpler folks. Dude, I've been enslaved by russian/soviet military forces most of my childhood, I know very well what they bring to any society and how they shape it to their liking. Just a typical sociopathic dictator out of touch with reality, nothing special there. The fact he is smart and put few sentences together doesn't matter at all, he is a vicious mass murderer completely out of touch with reality internally and externally, and a horrible manager of russia, damaging it severely and destroying any respect that nation and culture ever had. This started well before covid but that period cut him off completely.