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Geez, you're really tilting at windmills here. What makes you think if you had your choice of 100 different security products (as is the ecosystem on Windows an

Geez, you're really tilting at windmills here. What makes you think if you had your choice of 100 different security products (as is the ecosystem on Windows and Mac) that you'd be any more secure than "just" relying on Apple's security team (which is surely world-class)? Remember that Windows exploits abound, despite the antiviral/antirootkit ecosystem that grew up around it. If you want to "check your filesystem", I have an OS for you: Linux, BSD, maybe Solaris or something exotic. But I think you'll find that Torvalds gives less than two shits about Linux desktop/mobile security, so the first time you install a Pip or NPM package you risk getting rooted, and there are no serious (desktop or mobile) antivirus products for Linux.

neuroelectron 1y ago
There is only two mobile OSes and it wasn't the market that decided that state of affairs.
- ab5tract 1y ago
  Markets tend toward monopolies, with a stop at duopolies along the way. I do agree that Apple and Google both played the game with moves below the table, but that’s what “the market” gets you (amoral profit seeking that has no qualms with cheating and taking measures to ensure that one isn’t somehow suddenly operating under a political regime that cares about the morality of its market participants).
plst 1y ago
> Geez, you're really tilting at windmills here. What makes you think if you had your choice of 100 different security products (as is the ecosystem on Windows and Mac) that you'd be any more secure than "just" relying on Apple's security team (which is surely world-class)? Why shouldn't I have a choice? I could then depend on more than just Apple's security team. > Remember that Windows exploits abound, despite the antiviral/antirootkit ecosystem that grew up around it. Many exploits for iOS and Android, too. Seems that locking down the phone doesnt't help with that... (different security model for apps/userland does, but that's unrelated to my point) > I have an OS for you: Linux, BSD, maybe Solaris or something exotic. No, I want what works on phones now, with more user control.
alt227 1y ago
> Apple's security team (which is surely world-class) Hahaha, do you read HN much? There are stories on here all the time of security holes in Apples products which they refuse to fix. Heres a recent example of their M series CPUs having similar exploits in them to SPECTRE and MELTDOWN in Intel CPUs. The difference is Intel fixed it and took the 20% performance hit. Apple refuses to fix it because it would make their processors slower. https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/hackers-can-extract-secret-encryption-keys-from-apples-mac-chips/ https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/hackers-can-extract...
- phendrenad2 1y ago
  What about deciding not to "fix" an issue that is extremely hard to exploit in practice (especially on consumer-grade machines) negates my assertion that their engineers are "world-class"?
  - phendrenad2 1y ago
    Sure, just downvote me. Those who can't think for themselves, downvote.
  - alt227 1y ago
    Doesnt matter about the skill of the engineers. If the boss is telling them not to fix security holes to protect performance, the apple core is rotten.

neuroelectron 1y ago

There is only two mobile OSes and it wasn't the market that decided that state of affairs.

ab5tract 1y ago
Markets tend toward monopolies, with a stop at duopolies along the way. I do agree that Apple and Google both played the game with moves below the table, but that’s what “the market” gets you (amoral profit seeking that has no qualms with cheating and taking measures to ensure that one isn’t somehow suddenly operating under a political regime that cares about the morality of its market participants).

plst 1y ago

> Geez, you're really tilting at windmills here. What makes you think if you had your choice of 100 different security products (as is the ecosystem on Windows and Mac) that you'd be any more secure than "just" relying on Apple's security team (which is surely world-class)? Why shouldn't I have a choice? I could then depend on more than just Apple's security team. > Remember that Windows exploits abound, despite the antiviral/antirootkit ecosystem that grew up around it. Many exploits for iOS and Android, too. Seems that locking down the phone doesnt't help with that... (different security model for apps/userland does, but that's unrelated to my point) > I have an OS for you: Linux, BSD, maybe Solaris or something exotic. No, I want what works on phones now, with more user control.

alt227 1y ago

> Apple's security team (which is surely world-class) Hahaha, do you read HN much? There are stories on here all the time of security holes in Apples products which they refuse to fix. Heres a recent example of their M series CPUs having similar exploits in them to SPECTRE and MELTDOWN in Intel CPUs. The difference is Intel fixed it and took the 20% performance hit. Apple refuses to fix it because it would make their processors slower. https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/hackers-can-extract-secret-encryption-keys-from-apples-mac-chips/ https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/hackers-can-extract...

phendrenad2 1y ago
What about deciding not to "fix" an issue that is extremely hard to exploit in practice (especially on consumer-grade machines) negates my assertion that their engineers are "world-class"?
- phendrenad2 1y ago
  Sure, just downvote me. Those who can't think for themselves, downvote.
- alt227 1y ago
  Doesnt matter about the skill of the engineers. If the boss is telling them not to fix security holes to protect performance, the apple core is rotten.