6 ms·

The labor for this many nails is intense. They had to first smelt the iron, cast the pigs, "puddle" the cast iron to remove carbon and make wrought iron, hamm

The labor for this many nails is intense. They had to first smelt the iron, cast the pigs, "puddle" the cast iron to remove carbon and make wrought iron, hammer the wrought into rod, and THEN they could start making the nails. 800,000 nails × 3 minutes = 2.4 million minutes = 40,000 hours = 20 Years of labor

Aloisius 1y ago
3 minutes seems like an awful long time for an experienced smith to forge a nail.
- ejp 1y ago
  Judging from a recent thing I watched[1] ... ~1.5 mins per nail (as of the 8.5 hr + 352 nail mark), while streaming and talking. That would bring it down to only ~7 years of labor if we call it 1 min per nail, assuming that you're already working from prepared bar stock. Still a significant expenditure of skilled labor! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jAFLG8Y1XY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jAFLG8Y1XY
  - Aloisius 1y ago
    A nailer in the US in the 18th century could apparently make 200 nails per hour.[1] One in the UK reported making 3,000 nails/day in the 19th century.[2] Adam Smith reported seeing boys making 2,300 nails/day.[3] As I understand it, nail making was largely unchanged from the Roman era. One would have to adjust for work hours which differed in the past than today for those, but it like it would take someone 2 years to produce that number working modern hours, though likely less than 1 in the era they were produced. [1] https://www.mortiseandtenonmag.com/blogs/blog/issue-15-t-o-c-kenneth-schwarz-accustomed-to-handle-the-hammer-the-nail-making-specialty-in-pre-industrial-manufacture https://www.mortiseandtenonmag.com/blogs/blog/issue-15-t-o-c... [2] https://www.bournheath-pc.gov.uk/about-bournheath/bournheath-nailmakers/ https://www.bournheath-pc.gov.uk/about-bournheath/bournheath... [3] https://www.adamsmithworks.org/documents/chapter-1-of-the-division-of-labour https://www.adamsmithworks.org/documents/chapter-1-of-the-di...
    - hex4def6 1y ago
      Apples to oranges, but assuming the equivalent of (say) $10/hour, at 2300 nails / hr * 8 hrs, that would be $80 for 18,400 nails, or $0.004/nail. Quick google suggests iron was 1/300 the value of silver in the Roman empire, so if we say $40/oz, that makes an oz of iron = $0.13. a 10-penny nail is about 0.2oz, so $0.026/nail. $0.026 + 0.004 = $0.03/nail. If I go to home depot, 1lb / ~80 10-penny nails would cost me $9, or $0.11. So, astoundingly, it was cheaper in the Roman empire to buy nails(??). That doesn't seem right... Modern nails are different material (galvanized / zinc coated), but still.
      - opwieurposiu 1y ago
        The gp was saying around 200 nails an hour, not 2k an hour. Your labor cost is an order of magnitude too low. I can't find the price of nails in roman times, but 300 years ago it was around a buck a nail. https://www.nber.org/digest/202203/tracking-price-nails-1695 https://www.nber.org/digest/202203/tracking-price-nails-1695
        paulorlando 1y ago
        That report interested me. Especially how the price has gone up in the last century. There's another study that tracks the cost of lighting over the centuries as well: https://lucept.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/william-nordhaus-the-cost-of-light.pdf https://lucept.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/william-nordha...
        hex4def6 1y ago
        Sure. I guess I was pointing out in a roundabout way that one of the assumptions must be wrong. I don't think 2,300/hr feels realistic. 200 seems much more reasonable (or less). I'd be inclined to believe 1 nail per minute (sustained). If you assume $20-40/hr, now we're up $2-4/nail which seems much more reasonable.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]

Aloisius 1y ago

3 minutes seems like an awful long time for an experienced smith to forge a nail.

ejp 1y ago
Judging from a recent thing I watched[1] ... ~1.5 mins per nail (as of the 8.5 hr + 352 nail mark), while streaming and talking. That would bring it down to only ~7 years of labor if we call it 1 min per nail, assuming that you're already working from prepared bar stock. Still a significant expenditure of skilled labor! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jAFLG8Y1XY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jAFLG8Y1XY
- Aloisius 1y ago
  A nailer in the US in the 18th century could apparently make 200 nails per hour.[1] One in the UK reported making 3,000 nails/day in the 19th century.[2] Adam Smith reported seeing boys making 2,300 nails/day.[3] As I understand it, nail making was largely unchanged from the Roman era. One would have to adjust for work hours which differed in the past than today for those, but it like it would take someone 2 years to produce that number working modern hours, though likely less than 1 in the era they were produced. [1] https://www.mortiseandtenonmag.com/blogs/blog/issue-15-t-o-c-kenneth-schwarz-accustomed-to-handle-the-hammer-the-nail-making-specialty-in-pre-industrial-manufacture https://www.mortiseandtenonmag.com/blogs/blog/issue-15-t-o-c... [2] https://www.bournheath-pc.gov.uk/about-bournheath/bournheath-nailmakers/ https://www.bournheath-pc.gov.uk/about-bournheath/bournheath... [3] https://www.adamsmithworks.org/documents/chapter-1-of-the-division-of-labour https://www.adamsmithworks.org/documents/chapter-1-of-the-di...
  - hex4def6 1y ago
    Apples to oranges, but assuming the equivalent of (say) $10/hour, at 2300 nails / hr * 8 hrs, that would be $80 for 18,400 nails, or $0.004/nail. Quick google suggests iron was 1/300 the value of silver in the Roman empire, so if we say $40/oz, that makes an oz of iron = $0.13. a 10-penny nail is about 0.2oz, so $0.026/nail. $0.026 + 0.004 = $0.03/nail. If I go to home depot, 1lb / ~80 10-penny nails would cost me $9, or $0.11. So, astoundingly, it was cheaper in the Roman empire to buy nails(??). That doesn't seem right... Modern nails are different material (galvanized / zinc coated), but still.
    - opwieurposiu 1y ago
      The gp was saying around 200 nails an hour, not 2k an hour. Your labor cost is an order of magnitude too low. I can't find the price of nails in roman times, but 300 years ago it was around a buck a nail. https://www.nber.org/digest/202203/tracking-price-nails-1695 https://www.nber.org/digest/202203/tracking-price-nails-1695
      - paulorlando 1y ago
        That report interested me. Especially how the price has gone up in the last century. There's another study that tracks the cost of lighting over the centuries as well: https://lucept.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/william-nordhaus-the-cost-of-light.pdf https://lucept.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/william-nordha...
      - hex4def6 1y ago
        Sure. I guess I was pointing out in a roundabout way that one of the assumptions must be wrong. I don't think 2,300/hr feels realistic. 200 seems much more reasonable (or less). I'd be inclined to believe 1 nail per minute (sustained). If you assume $20-40/hr, now we're up $2-4/nail which seems much more reasonable.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]