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Your own stats >US: 5.763/100k (of which 3-4/100k are firearms) >Chicago's ~26.9/100k homicide rate So Chicago has a ~5x increase over the national average h

Your own stats >US: 5.763/100k (of which 3-4/100k are firearms) >Chicago's ~26.9/100k homicide rate So Chicago has a ~5x increase over the national average homicide rate and you're calling guns a "national-level concern". Can you help me understand why I should have gun control in my ~2.6/100k county just because Chicago has 10x that rate?

ceejayoz 1y ago
Sure. Chicago's guns come from outside Chicago; it's surrounded by very permissive jurisdictions. (Trump supporters like to call this sort of issue "open borders".) Your county's seemingly "low" rate is 5x that of China (0.5/100k), 3x that of Germany (0.8/100k), double the city of London (1.4/100k). It's abberantly high still, by international standards.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  Why don't you compare the US to Nigeria, Brazil, or Pakistan? Those are more in-line with US population size than Germany, London, or China
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    > Why don't you compare the US to Nigeria, Brazil, or Pakistan? Because we are in the developed world, and "at least we're better than Pakistan" is probably not the highest of bars we should aspire to as a country? > Those are more in-line with US population size than Germany, London, or China The EU, if you prefer - similar size, population, state+federal(ish) makeup, developed world, mix of wealthy and poorer jurisdictions, etc. - has a 0.86/100k rate.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
      > is probably not the highest of bars we should aspire to Keep going on this. Why is the US inherently better than Pakistan/Nigeria/Brazil?
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        Inherently? Nah. Historically? Colonialism. Currently? Yeah, I'd rather live here in the developed world.
  - hollerith 1y ago
    Because the numbers we are citing here have been divided by population size.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
      It's likely that population size/density can't be abstracted away by normalizing figures since those are actually factors leading to population violence/governance.
      - hollerith 1y ago
        Why would a resident of a populous country be significantly more likely to kill than a resident of a small country?
        ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
        No idea, but look at the homicide rate or Wyoming (590k, 2.6/100k) vs that of any similarly-populated US city: Baltimore (576k, 58/100k), Albuquerque (562k, 21/100k), Fresno (544k, 13/100k).
        ceejayoz 1y ago
        Now, do the same with similarly sized cities and regions in the developed world - the EU, for example. You’ll find dramatically lower rates for comparable populations.
        hollerith 1y ago
        Yes, it is widely known that population density increases the homicide rate. However your first comment in this thread asserted that it is illogical or improper to compare (the homicide rate in) the US to Germany or China on the grounds that the one has a much smaller total population than the US and that the other has a much larger total population, and you have added nothing that supports those 2 assertions. If every country in the world had the same area as every other country, then you could draw a line from total population to population density, but of course that is not the case.
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  Despite emphasizing “city of London”, the stats you are citing seem to be those of Metropolitan London (for which stats are relatively easily locatable), not the City of London (for which this particular stat is harder to find, but overall has much lower crime than Metropolitan London.)
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    The city of London is Metropolitan London. The Big-C City of London is the little bit mostly fascinating to those of us who go down Wikipedia rabbit holes. I didn't capitalize it for a reason; I emphasize its being a city because it's useful in the "well that's because the stats are for entire countries" aspect of things. Big cities in Europe are largely safer statistically than even the low-crime areas of the US.

ceejayoz 1y ago

Sure. Chicago's guns come from outside Chicago; it's surrounded by very permissive jurisdictions. (Trump supporters like to call this sort of issue "open borders".) Your county's seemingly "low" rate is 5x that of China (0.5/100k), 3x that of Germany (0.8/100k), double the city of London (1.4/100k). It's abberantly high still, by international standards.

ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
Why don't you compare the US to Nigeria, Brazil, or Pakistan? Those are more in-line with US population size than Germany, London, or China
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  > Why don't you compare the US to Nigeria, Brazil, or Pakistan? Because we are in the developed world, and "at least we're better than Pakistan" is probably not the highest of bars we should aspire to as a country? > Those are more in-line with US population size than Germany, London, or China The EU, if you prefer - similar size, population, state+federal(ish) makeup, developed world, mix of wealthy and poorer jurisdictions, etc. - has a 0.86/100k rate.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
    > is probably not the highest of bars we should aspire to Keep going on this. Why is the US inherently better than Pakistan/Nigeria/Brazil?
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      Inherently? Nah. Historically? Colonialism. Currently? Yeah, I'd rather live here in the developed world.
- hollerith 1y ago
  Because the numbers we are citing here have been divided by population size.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
    It's likely that population size/density can't be abstracted away by normalizing figures since those are actually factors leading to population violence/governance.
    - hollerith 1y ago
      Why would a resident of a populous country be significantly more likely to kill than a resident of a small country?
      - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
        No idea, but look at the homicide rate or Wyoming (590k, 2.6/100k) vs that of any similarly-populated US city: Baltimore (576k, 58/100k), Albuquerque (562k, 21/100k), Fresno (544k, 13/100k).
        ceejayoz 1y ago
        Now, do the same with similarly sized cities and regions in the developed world - the EU, for example. You’ll find dramatically lower rates for comparable populations.
        hollerith 1y ago
        Yes, it is widely known that population density increases the homicide rate. However your first comment in this thread asserted that it is illogical or improper to compare (the homicide rate in) the US to Germany or China on the grounds that the one has a much smaller total population than the US and that the other has a much larger total population, and you have added nothing that supports those 2 assertions. If every country in the world had the same area as every other country, then you could draw a line from total population to population density, but of course that is not the case.
dragonwriter 1y ago
Despite emphasizing “city of London”, the stats you are citing seem to be those of Metropolitan London (for which stats are relatively easily locatable), not the City of London (for which this particular stat is harder to find, but overall has much lower crime than Metropolitan London.)
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  The city of London is Metropolitan London. The Big-C City of London is the little bit mostly fascinating to those of us who go down Wikipedia rabbit holes. I didn't capitalize it for a reason; I emphasize its being a city because it's useful in the "well that's because the stats are for entire countries" aspect of things. Big cities in Europe are largely safer statistically than even the low-crime areas of the US.