4 ms·

That's a oversimplified view. It doesn't matter if it's a fork. It has customers and paying ones. And it has a brand. That's more than enough. $3 billion w

That's a oversimplified view. It doesn't matter if it's a fork. It has customers and paying ones. And it has a brand. That's more than enough. $3 billion would be peanuts for OpenAI

avisser 1y ago
> And it has a brand Didn't they change names months ago? I know them as Codeium.
- levzzz 1y ago
  [dead]
codyvoda 1y ago
given that they lose >$4B/year I guess everything is peanuts
- mrweasel 1y ago
  OpenAI have $40 billion in funding from SoftBank for the next two years, so they can afford to buy Windsurf. Is OpenAI worth the $260 billion valuation... No, of course not, they're losing >$4 billion a year.
  - dbbk 1y ago
    That $40 billion is actively being spent being lit on fire to serve all the ChatGPT requests though. It's not just sat in the bank doing nothing.
lolinder 1y ago
If it acquired those customers in an environment where Microsoft was not enforcing their marketplace terms it very much does matter if they have a plan for supporting plugins in the future. Are Cursor and Windsurf going to ask plugin devs to push to their own plugin stores in addition to VS Code's? Will they rally jointly behind a single open store? They need to have an answer to Microsoft here, and for the good of the ecosystem I hope they do have an answer, but customers will flee quickly if they lose access to all the proprietary plugins and to the broader ecosystem.
- whywhywhywhy 1y ago
  > Are Cursor and Windsurf going to ask plugin devs to push to their own plugin stores in addition to VS Code's? They should and probably will soon, and if I were them I'd even consider giving plugin devs a cut of their paying customer subs if MS gets competitive about it. > but customers will flee quickly if they lose access to all the proprietary plugins and to the broader ecosystem. Agentic AI coding is more important to customers than VSCode's extension ecosystem. VSCode is who has to worry in this equation unless they ship the same tools in the next few months and heavily subsidize them.
  - lolinder 1y ago
    VS Code is shipping agentic coding in the form of updates to GitHub Copilot. I haven't used it extensively yet since they added agent mode, but it's obvious that they're gunning for this market hard, and if I were into VS Code I would not personally choose to lose the ecosystem for marginally better agent mode.
    - whywhywhywhy 1y ago
      The ecosystem will follow the users. If Cursor or Windsurf has better AI coding that’s where the users will be and the extensions will follow. You’re in the minority if you favor manual coding + extensions over something doing your job for you.
      - ewoodrich 1y ago
        But that's a false dichotomy, Cursor is far from the only capable agentic option. Personally I switched back to using VS Code with Cline + Github Copilot (just for autocomplete and included model access to Gemini Pro 2.5/Claude 3.5/7 that I can use with Cline).
Androider 1y ago
VSCode must have over 100 times the user base of Windsurf and Cursor combined. All Microsoft needs to do is implement a halfway decent version of the context management features these forks added. That alone would be enough to halt user migration. For users who've already switched to the forks, the cost of switching back is essentially zero, especially if Microsoft begins introducing changes that break fork compatibility. In that case, the migration direction would reverse almost overnight.
- sumedh 1y ago
  > All Microsoft needs to do is implement a halfway decent version and still MS could not build a chat App, they had to acquire Skype. Google could not build a social network.

That's a oversimplified view. It doesn't matter if it's a fork. It has customers and paying ones. And it has a brand. That's more than enough. $3 billion would be peanuts for OpenAI

avisser 1y ago

> And it has a brand Didn't they change names months ago? I know them as Codeium.

levzzz 1y ago
[dead]

codyvoda 1y ago

given that they lose >$4B/year I guess everything is peanuts

mrweasel 1y ago
OpenAI have $40 billion in funding from SoftBank for the next two years, so they can afford to buy Windsurf. Is OpenAI worth the $260 billion valuation... No, of course not, they're losing >$4 billion a year.
- dbbk 1y ago
  That $40 billion is actively being spent being lit on fire to serve all the ChatGPT requests though. It's not just sat in the bank doing nothing.

lolinder 1y ago

If it acquired those customers in an environment where Microsoft was not enforcing their marketplace terms it very much does matter if they have a plan for supporting plugins in the future. Are Cursor and Windsurf going to ask plugin devs to push to their own plugin stores in addition to VS Code's? Will they rally jointly behind a single open store? They need to have an answer to Microsoft here, and for the good of the ecosystem I hope they do have an answer, but customers will flee quickly if they lose access to all the proprietary plugins and to the broader ecosystem.

whywhywhywhy 1y ago
> Are Cursor and Windsurf going to ask plugin devs to push to their own plugin stores in addition to VS Code's? They should and probably will soon, and if I were them I'd even consider giving plugin devs a cut of their paying customer subs if MS gets competitive about it. > but customers will flee quickly if they lose access to all the proprietary plugins and to the broader ecosystem. Agentic AI coding is more important to customers than VSCode's extension ecosystem. VSCode is who has to worry in this equation unless they ship the same tools in the next few months and heavily subsidize them.
- lolinder 1y ago
  VS Code is shipping agentic coding in the form of updates to GitHub Copilot. I haven't used it extensively yet since they added agent mode, but it's obvious that they're gunning for this market hard, and if I were into VS Code I would not personally choose to lose the ecosystem for marginally better agent mode.
  - whywhywhywhy 1y ago
    The ecosystem will follow the users. If Cursor or Windsurf has better AI coding that’s where the users will be and the extensions will follow. You’re in the minority if you favor manual coding + extensions over something doing your job for you.
    - ewoodrich 1y ago
      But that's a false dichotomy, Cursor is far from the only capable agentic option. Personally I switched back to using VS Code with Cline + Github Copilot (just for autocomplete and included model access to Gemini Pro 2.5/Claude 3.5/7 that I can use with Cline).

Androider 1y ago

VSCode must have over 100 times the user base of Windsurf and Cursor combined. All Microsoft needs to do is implement a halfway decent version of the context management features these forks added. That alone would be enough to halt user migration. For users who've already switched to the forks, the cost of switching back is essentially zero, especially if Microsoft begins introducing changes that break fork compatibility. In that case, the migration direction would reverse almost overnight.

sumedh 1y ago
> All Microsoft needs to do is implement a halfway decent version and still MS could not build a chat App, they had to acquire Skype. Google could not build a social network.