4 ms·

Germany, Austria, Italy and France: With friends like these who needs enemies? :)

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
aredox 1y ago
And yet it is the Swiss who waged wars in all these countries - as mercenaries. The last two wars between the Swiss and their neighbours were in 1531 and during Napoleon - who in the end admired the Swiss confederacy and helped rebirth it in its modern form.
- lazide 1y ago
  Being the source of mercenaries is literally the opposite of waging war as the country. That they weren’t waging war does result in excess men who someone else can pay to wage war for them though.
  - euroderf 1y ago
    Young men with nothing to do, no gainful employment, are the curse of many a nation. Civil unrest. Mercenaries outsource the problem.
  - aredox 1y ago
    >Being the source of mercenaries is literally the opposite of waging war as the country. Patently wrong: Swiss Neutrality explicitely bans mercenary work by any Swiss citizen.
    - lazide 1y ago
      Maybe in the modern era, specifically since 1848, but [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries]. “The young men who went off to fight, and sometimes die, in foreign service had several incentives—limited economic options in the still largely rural cantons; adventure; pride in the reputation of the Swiss as soldiers; and finally what military historian Sir Charles Oman describes as a pure love of combat and warfighting in and of itself, forged by two centuries of conflict.” Either way, being a mercenary is explicitly the opposite of ‘fighting for your country’, which is the point I was making.
    - Telemakhos 1y ago
      It does now, but Swiss mercenaries were a target of Thomas More’s satire in Utopia.
    - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
      Doesn't the Vatican still have a Swiss guard? I wonder how that works
      - palata 1y ago
        There is an exception for them.
    - palata 1y ago
      > Patently wrong No, but you just haven't understood that they were talking about the past :-).
    - emmelaich 1y ago
      Interesting, considering the Vatican Swiss Guard. >The Swiss Guard is considered an elite military unit and highly selective in its recruitment: candidates must be unmarried Swiss Catholic males between 19 and 30 years of age,... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard
- PicassoCTs 1y ago
  Thats the fate of all mountainous countries with population surplus? They used to send children to work abroad in medieval times. They often were used as cannonfood armies and mercenaries. Same thing in Afghanistan. Should have introduced the canton system to the taliban. Much more reasonable model for that area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swabian_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swabian_children
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  Mercenaries were very common at the time and Switzerland shares the languages of its neighbours, which probably makes it even easier to seek "employment".
- cowfarts 1y ago
  [dead]
- panick21_ 1y ago
  Switzerland waged wars with all of these 'countries', before the were primary mercenaries.
aivisol 1y ago
That is how you ensure your neutrality.
- alexey-salmin 1y ago
  Not directly related, but I don't that model works anymore. Switzerland is landlocked and surrounded by the European Union that unlike the independent neighbors of the past applies pressure coherently. Over the years Switzerland seems more and more aligned with both EU and US and I don't think they have much of a choice.
  - Cthulhu_ 1y ago
    They have a choice to a point but today, isolating is regressing; there's a lot of money to be made if you have healthy relationships with your neighbours.
  - roenxi 1y ago
    That logic applied in WWII when Switzerland was surrounded by Axis powers and they nonetheless got excellent outcomes by officially remaining neutral. The model will probably keep working until someone invades them.
input_sh 1y ago
Austria is also militarily neutral. Not a part of NATO and >60% of Austrians were always against joining NATO.
- senderista 1y ago
  Surely this is related to their (brief) Soviet occupation? I always thought it was a miracle that they didn't end up behind the Iron Curtain.
  - input_sh 1y ago
    Soviet union definitely condititioned them to sign the neutrality initially, but like I said, every single opinion poll going back 70 years was always decisively in favour of keeping the neutrality. They also could've joined the EU somewhat earlier, but have refused to do so until the EU changed its rules about NATO membership. Up until 1995, every EU member was also a NATO member.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

And yet it is the Swiss who waged wars in all these countries - as mercenaries. The last two wars between the Swiss and their neighbours were in 1531 and during Napoleon - who in the end admired the Swiss confederacy and helped rebirth it in its modern form.

lazide 1y ago
Being the source of mercenaries is literally the opposite of waging war as the country. That they weren’t waging war does result in excess men who someone else can pay to wage war for them though.
- euroderf 1y ago
  Young men with nothing to do, no gainful employment, are the curse of many a nation. Civil unrest. Mercenaries outsource the problem.
- aredox 1y ago
  >Being the source of mercenaries is literally the opposite of waging war as the country. Patently wrong: Swiss Neutrality explicitely bans mercenary work by any Swiss citizen.
  - lazide 1y ago
    Maybe in the modern era, specifically since 1848, but [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries]. “The young men who went off to fight, and sometimes die, in foreign service had several incentives—limited economic options in the still largely rural cantons; adventure; pride in the reputation of the Swiss as soldiers; and finally what military historian Sir Charles Oman describes as a pure love of combat and warfighting in and of itself, forged by two centuries of conflict.” Either way, being a mercenary is explicitly the opposite of ‘fighting for your country’, which is the point I was making.
  - Telemakhos 1y ago
    It does now, but Swiss mercenaries were a target of Thomas More’s satire in Utopia.
  - amanaplanacanal 1y ago
    Doesn't the Vatican still have a Swiss guard? I wonder how that works
    - palata 1y ago
      There is an exception for them.
  - palata 1y ago
    > Patently wrong No, but you just haven't understood that they were talking about the past :-).
  - emmelaich 1y ago
    Interesting, considering the Vatican Swiss Guard. >The Swiss Guard is considered an elite military unit and highly selective in its recruitment: candidates must be unmarried Swiss Catholic males between 19 and 30 years of age,... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Guard
PicassoCTs 1y ago
Thats the fate of all mountainous countries with population surplus? They used to send children to work abroad in medieval times. They often were used as cannonfood armies and mercenaries. Same thing in Afghanistan. Should have introduced the canton system to the taliban. Much more reasonable model for that area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swabian_children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swabian_children
mytailorisrich 1y ago
Mercenaries were very common at the time and Switzerland shares the languages of its neighbours, which probably makes it even easier to seek "employment".
cowfarts 1y ago
[dead]
panick21_ 1y ago
Switzerland waged wars with all of these 'countries', before the were primary mercenaries.

aivisol 1y ago

That is how you ensure your neutrality.

alexey-salmin 1y ago
Not directly related, but I don't that model works anymore. Switzerland is landlocked and surrounded by the European Union that unlike the independent neighbors of the past applies pressure coherently. Over the years Switzerland seems more and more aligned with both EU and US and I don't think they have much of a choice.
- Cthulhu_ 1y ago
  They have a choice to a point but today, isolating is regressing; there's a lot of money to be made if you have healthy relationships with your neighbours.
- roenxi 1y ago
  That logic applied in WWII when Switzerland was surrounded by Axis powers and they nonetheless got excellent outcomes by officially remaining neutral. The model will probably keep working until someone invades them.

input_sh 1y ago

Austria is also militarily neutral. Not a part of NATO and >60% of Austrians were always against joining NATO.

senderista 1y ago
Surely this is related to their (brief) Soviet occupation? I always thought it was a miracle that they didn't end up behind the Iron Curtain.
- input_sh 1y ago
  Soviet union definitely condititioned them to sign the neutrality initially, but like I said, every single opinion poll going back 70 years was always decisively in favour of keeping the neutrality. They also could've joined the EU somewhat earlier, but have refused to do so until the EU changed its rules about NATO membership. Up until 1995, every EU member was also a NATO member.