3 ms·

Can you smuggle data in an ID card photo?

28 points by edent 1y ago

pomian 1y ago
Very cool discussion and ideas. A true HN article. Need to translate though - unless of course you are Polish.
tW4r 1y ago
Google translated to English: https://informatykzakladowy-pl.translate.goog/pierwszy-na-swiecie-dowod-osobisty-z-reklama-bloga/?_x_tr_sl=pl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://informatykzakladowy-pl.translate.goog/pierwszy-na-sw...
weinzierl 1y ago
In Germany there is a discussion about only allowing approved photographers for passport photos and them sending the pictures directly to the authorities. They are also very picky about the images here. When I got a new passport recently they investigated my images thoroughly with a magnifying glass and almost rejected them because of a few white pixels you could not see with the naked eye. Only when they saw that the pixels were different between multiple copies they conclude that it was probably a printer issue and found one copy that had almost none which they accepted. I think authorities are well aware of the risk mentioned in the article here.
- thesimon 1y ago
  > In Germany there is a discussion The discussion concluded with it being codified into law. How it's gonna work apparently is that the image will be stored E2E-encrypted in the cloud and at the photographer you'll get a barcode that contains the URL to the image and the key to decrypt it. To upload the image into the cloud, the photographer will need to use a secure ID card to sign in. https://www.bsi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/BSI/Publikationen/TechnischeRichtlinien/TR03170/BSI_TR_03170_Rahmendokument.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=7 https://www.bsi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/BSI/Publikat... Was kinda interested in building software for this, but it feels like you need to pay a lot of people for fancy audits.
- docdeek 1y ago
  France has already got something similar: the e-photo. https://refugies.info/en/procedure/63528e00976acb4f7bcd37ad https://refugies.info/en/procedure/63528e00976acb4f7bcd37ad
- WelcomeShorty 1y ago
  In Switzerland we're one step ahead: ID photos get taken at the counter where they're issued. You get 2, 3 takes and pick the best. Efficient and secure.
MartijnHols 1y ago
One thing to consider is that if you were to succeed in placing hidden text/image on an ID card, it may fail manual forgery checks at airports and police stations. One of the many ways IDs are checked is with different types of lighting[1]. This might have made this stand out as an artifact, which could result in an officer doubting its legitimacy. [1] https://www.airport-suppliers.com/supplier-press-release/the-security-of-ids-volume-4-optical-security-features-ir-uv-ovds-and-more/ https://www.airport-suppliers.com/supplier-press-release/the...
coopermichele85 1y ago
[dead]
poisonborz 1y ago
Why use the most often scanned and scrutinized item in your inventory? Why not a family photo in your wallet or a fake discount card?
antonpirker 1y ago
This reminds me of Nico Alm who was wearing a colander as hat on his picture of his passport. He argued that religious hats are allowed and he is a pastafari :-)

28 points by edent 1y ago

Very cool discussion and ideas. A true HN article. Need to translate though - unless of course you are Polish.

tW4r 1y ago

Google translated to English: https://informatykzakladowy-pl.translate.goog/pierwszy-na-swiecie-dowod-osobisty-z-reklama-bloga/?_x_tr_sl=pl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://informatykzakladowy-pl.translate.goog/pierwszy-na-sw...

weinzierl 1y ago

In Germany there is a discussion about only allowing approved photographers for passport photos and them sending the pictures directly to the authorities. They are also very picky about the images here. When I got a new passport recently they investigated my images thoroughly with a magnifying glass and almost rejected them because of a few white pixels you could not see with the naked eye. Only when they saw that the pixels were different between multiple copies they conclude that it was probably a printer issue and found one copy that had almost none which they accepted. I think authorities are well aware of the risk mentioned in the article here.

thesimon 1y ago
> In Germany there is a discussion The discussion concluded with it being codified into law. How it's gonna work apparently is that the image will be stored E2E-encrypted in the cloud and at the photographer you'll get a barcode that contains the URL to the image and the key to decrypt it. To upload the image into the cloud, the photographer will need to use a secure ID card to sign in. https://www.bsi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/BSI/Publikationen/TechnischeRichtlinien/TR03170/BSI_TR_03170_Rahmendokument.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=7 https://www.bsi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/BSI/Publikat... Was kinda interested in building software for this, but it feels like you need to pay a lot of people for fancy audits.
docdeek 1y ago
France has already got something similar: the e-photo. https://refugies.info/en/procedure/63528e00976acb4f7bcd37ad https://refugies.info/en/procedure/63528e00976acb4f7bcd37ad
WelcomeShorty 1y ago
In Switzerland we're one step ahead: ID photos get taken at the counter where they're issued. You get 2, 3 takes and pick the best. Efficient and secure.

MartijnHols 1y ago

One thing to consider is that if you were to succeed in placing hidden text/image on an ID card, it may fail manual forgery checks at airports and police stations. One of the many ways IDs are checked is with different types of lighting[1]. This might have made this stand out as an artifact, which could result in an officer doubting its legitimacy. [1] https://www.airport-suppliers.com/supplier-press-release/the-security-of-ids-volume-4-optical-security-features-ir-uv-ovds-and-more/ https://www.airport-suppliers.com/supplier-press-release/the...

coopermichele85 1y ago

[dead]

poisonborz 1y ago

Why use the most often scanned and scrutinized item in your inventory? Why not a family photo in your wallet or a fake discount card?

antonpirker 1y ago

This reminds me of Nico Alm who was wearing a colander as hat on his picture of his passport. He argued that religious hats are allowed and he is a pastafari :-)