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I find it really challenging to get people to notice these things, let alone actively take even small actions for positive change. I'm interested in what the c

I find it really challenging to get people to notice these things, let alone actively take even small actions for positive change. I'm interested in what the community thinks are some of the methods I could use to improve these things, and why people quickly become inured to these kinds of problems. I'm thinking, specifically, about peeling paint, litter, dirty signs, the kind of thing that even a passing effort, a hammer and a nail, or a bit of soap and water can fix for a surprisingly long time (~months, certainly). It's one of the things I think is an interesting contrast between "first world" countries and many of the places I've been that are poorer - less wealthy places seem to put a significant effort into basic maintenance, because replacing things are so expensive compared to the cost of living.

verisimi 1y ago
If you pay government 40-50% of your income to government to manage common areas, you think you have already paid for this. You would feel foolish to spend even more of your resources on this. It is someone else's job, not yours. In places where there is not such a strong governance structure, what you see is people doing more of what comes naturally to everyone. The communal idea arises naturally for things that people want to do. Sure, it's messier without town planning officers, etc, but the governance structure doesn't stop things getting done. You say they are poorer but gdp, salary or whatever is not the only metric one can use to measure meaning in life. Time is the real money.
taxedrollik 1y ago
Part of the reason people don't do those kinds of things where I live is that the municipalities specifically prohibit any kind of alterations, including repair, on municipal property. If something is broken, they will tell you that you must wait until the municipality feels like fixing it
squigz 1y ago
I think it's that people are tired. Tired of paying large amounts of money to taxes that don't seem to fix anything in their day-to-day lives. Tired of companies screwing them over at every possible turn. I recognize things won't easily change while people think that, that it's a tricky, vicious cycle. I wish I knew how to fix it, other than - as another commenter points out - doing the 'little' things and pushing ever so slowly for the change we need.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  >I think it's that people are tired. Tired of paying large amounts of money to taxes that don't seem to fix anything in their day-to-day lives. Tired of companies screwing them over at every possible turn. Tired of hearing these endless debates. Tired of seeing people peddle policy based o11n one set of principals out of one side of their mouth and a different policy based on different principals out of the other. >doing the 'little' things and pushing ever so slowly for the change we need. Sometimes improving things, sometimes creating yet more layers of spaghetti that prevent future change....
  - squigz 1y ago
    > Sometimes improving things, sometimes creating yet more layers of spaghetti that prevent future change.... I'm talking about, say, engaging in discussions about politics, trying to understand each other, trying to compromise. I assume you're referring to, for example, enacting more government programs.
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      >I assume you're referring to, for example, enacting more government programs. Or saddling existing ones with poorly thought out requirements and revisions and whatnot. These programs always seem to start decent and go to crap with time as the "older" bits of government sink their teeth in with subsequent revisions because there's no political will to constantly fight the fight you need to to keep it from becoming co-opted or at the very least degraded by other interests. At some point people start noticing the pattern, get tired of it and just saying no to the initial request even if it has merit. It's probably just yet another symptom of how bankrupt our institutions are. <sighs>
sokoloff 1y ago
Fixing peeling paint correctly is a really substantial undertaking, especially as compared to picking up litter. Removing the loose paint, figuring out if there’s a moisture problem, rot/rust, or other physical repairs needed, buying appropriate paint (maybe matching the color), then sanding, cleaning, priming, sanding, cleaning, and painting. Slapping a bit of new paint over a problem is not the answer unless you want to make a recurring problem out of it.

verisimi 1y ago

If you pay government 40-50% of your income to government to manage common areas, you think you have already paid for this. You would feel foolish to spend even more of your resources on this. It is someone else's job, not yours. In places where there is not such a strong governance structure, what you see is people doing more of what comes naturally to everyone. The communal idea arises naturally for things that people want to do. Sure, it's messier without town planning officers, etc, but the governance structure doesn't stop things getting done. You say they are poorer but gdp, salary or whatever is not the only metric one can use to measure meaning in life. Time is the real money.

taxedrollik 1y ago

Part of the reason people don't do those kinds of things where I live is that the municipalities specifically prohibit any kind of alterations, including repair, on municipal property. If something is broken, they will tell you that you must wait until the municipality feels like fixing it

squigz 1y ago

I think it's that people are tired. Tired of paying large amounts of money to taxes that don't seem to fix anything in their day-to-day lives. Tired of companies screwing them over at every possible turn. I recognize things won't easily change while people think that, that it's a tricky, vicious cycle. I wish I knew how to fix it, other than - as another commenter points out - doing the 'little' things and pushing ever so slowly for the change we need.

potato3732842 1y ago
>I think it's that people are tired. Tired of paying large amounts of money to taxes that don't seem to fix anything in their day-to-day lives. Tired of companies screwing them over at every possible turn. Tired of hearing these endless debates. Tired of seeing people peddle policy based o11n one set of principals out of one side of their mouth and a different policy based on different principals out of the other. >doing the 'little' things and pushing ever so slowly for the change we need. Sometimes improving things, sometimes creating yet more layers of spaghetti that prevent future change....
- squigz 1y ago
  > Sometimes improving things, sometimes creating yet more layers of spaghetti that prevent future change.... I'm talking about, say, engaging in discussions about politics, trying to understand each other, trying to compromise. I assume you're referring to, for example, enacting more government programs.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    >I assume you're referring to, for example, enacting more government programs. Or saddling existing ones with poorly thought out requirements and revisions and whatnot. These programs always seem to start decent and go to crap with time as the "older" bits of government sink their teeth in with subsequent revisions because there's no political will to constantly fight the fight you need to to keep it from becoming co-opted or at the very least degraded by other interests. At some point people start noticing the pattern, get tired of it and just saying no to the initial request even if it has merit. It's probably just yet another symptom of how bankrupt our institutions are. <sighs>

sokoloff 1y ago

Fixing peeling paint correctly is a really substantial undertaking, especially as compared to picking up litter. Removing the loose paint, figuring out if there’s a moisture problem, rot/rust, or other physical repairs needed, buying appropriate paint (maybe matching the color), then sanding, cleaning, priming, sanding, cleaning, and painting. Slapping a bit of new paint over a problem is not the answer unless you want to make a recurring problem out of it.