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The over/under there doesn't make sense: the US hasn't had a meaningfully hostile-to-Israel policy ever, so pervasively tapping some of the most sensitive USG c

The over/under there doesn't make sense: the US hasn't had a meaningfully hostile-to-Israel policy ever, so pervasively tapping some of the most sensitive USG communications would be a stunning risk to take with a very safe ally. (It also beggars belief in the current climate -- I would be hard-pressed to name a single member of the current administration who hasn't yelled until purple in the face about their support for Israel's current government and wartime policies.)

like_any_other 1y ago
You might think so, but they didn't face any backlash for buying politicians [1,2] and bragging about it [3], so why would they worry? You also assume that the US is a "very safe ally" naturally, and not as a consequence of means such as these. [1] After House Speaker Mike Johnson Pushed Through Israel Aid Package, AIPAC Cash Came Flowing In - https://theintercept.com/2024/01/20/israel-aipac-house-mike-johnson/ https://theintercept.com/2024/01/20/israel-aipac-house-mike-... [2] The Israel lobby and U.S. foreign policy - https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/israel-lobby-and-us-foreign-policy https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/israel-lobby-and-us... [3] More than 95% of AIPAC-backed candidates won their election last night! Being pro-Israel is good policy and good politics! - https://x.com/AIPAC/status/1590362232915132417 https://x.com/AIPAC/status/1590362232915132417
immibis 1y ago
Everyone is tapping everyone else to the extent they can get away with it - especially allies, because they can get away with it more. You don't think the NSA monitors every single bit that flows in and out of the USA? Periodically, someone gets caught red-handed, a fuss is made, some diplomats get thrown out and replaced with other ones, and then everyone continues doing it.
iAMkenough 1y ago
They have never had a hostile-to-Israel policy and never will because of the leverage Israel has over US politicians. There's a reason the US bought this app from Israelis, and it wasn't because of improved security or archive compliance. For how much they like to beat the "buy American" drum, this contradicts that.
senderista 1y ago
Really? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard
- woodruffw 1y ago
  You'll note that this case caused exactly the kind of outcome I'm talking about: Pollard was an anomaly (to my knowledge, the only recorded case of a US citizen spying for a US ally) whose activities caused a massive intelligence break between US and Israel that lasted for years and probably did more damage than "good" it served for Israel's intelligence apparatus[1]. That kind of lesson is hard-learned and probably not forgotten, regardless of the fact that Pollard is a poster-boy in Israel's version of a culture war. [1]: https://www.thedailybeast.com/israeli-spies-arent-exactly-rejoicing-at-jonathan-pollards-release/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/israeli-spies-arent-exactly-re...
  - pmyteh 1y ago
    Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were also US citizens spying for a US ally, at least in theory. Though the Soviet Union had stopped being an ally before they were convicted, of course.
arandomusername 1y ago
The most "hostile to Israel" policy was under JFK, which is interesting.
- woodruffw 1y ago
  Yep. In general there's been no truly "hostile to Israel" US president. The closest thing to "hostility" has been negotiating (under JFK, Carter, Bush Sr., and Obama most notably) with regards to one or more of Iran, the '67 border, WB settlements, etc. Israel has increasingly (and wrongly) considered these "meddling" under its far-right government, which is a internal change within their own politics rather than a marked change in the US's own tactics.

like_any_other 1y ago

You might think so, but they didn't face any backlash for buying politicians [1,2] and bragging about it [3], so why would they worry? You also assume that the US is a "very safe ally" naturally, and not as a consequence of means such as these. [1] After House Speaker Mike Johnson Pushed Through Israel Aid Package, AIPAC Cash Came Flowing In - https://theintercept.com/2024/01/20/israel-aipac-house-mike-johnson/ https://theintercept.com/2024/01/20/israel-aipac-house-mike-... [2] The Israel lobby and U.S. foreign policy - https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/israel-lobby-and-us-foreign-policy https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/israel-lobby-and-us... [3] More than 95% of AIPAC-backed candidates won their election last night! Being pro-Israel is good policy and good politics! - https://x.com/AIPAC/status/1590362232915132417 https://x.com/AIPAC/status/1590362232915132417

immibis 1y ago

Everyone is tapping everyone else to the extent they can get away with it - especially allies, because they can get away with it more. You don't think the NSA monitors every single bit that flows in and out of the USA? Periodically, someone gets caught red-handed, a fuss is made, some diplomats get thrown out and replaced with other ones, and then everyone continues doing it.

iAMkenough 1y ago

They have never had a hostile-to-Israel policy and never will because of the leverage Israel has over US politicians. There's a reason the US bought this app from Israelis, and it wasn't because of improved security or archive compliance. For how much they like to beat the "buy American" drum, this contradicts that.

senderista 1y ago

Really? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard

woodruffw 1y ago
You'll note that this case caused exactly the kind of outcome I'm talking about: Pollard was an anomaly (to my knowledge, the only recorded case of a US citizen spying for a US ally) whose activities caused a massive intelligence break between US and Israel that lasted for years and probably did more damage than "good" it served for Israel's intelligence apparatus[1]. That kind of lesson is hard-learned and probably not forgotten, regardless of the fact that Pollard is a poster-boy in Israel's version of a culture war. [1]: https://www.thedailybeast.com/israeli-spies-arent-exactly-rejoicing-at-jonathan-pollards-release/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/israeli-spies-arent-exactly-re...
- pmyteh 1y ago
  Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were also US citizens spying for a US ally, at least in theory. Though the Soviet Union had stopped being an ally before they were convicted, of course.

arandomusername 1y ago

The most "hostile to Israel" policy was under JFK, which is interesting.

woodruffw 1y ago
Yep. In general there's been no truly "hostile to Israel" US president. The closest thing to "hostility" has been negotiating (under JFK, Carter, Bush Sr., and Obama most notably) with regards to one or more of Iran, the '67 border, WB settlements, etc. Israel has increasingly (and wrongly) considered these "meddling" under its far-right government, which is a internal change within their own politics rather than a marked change in the US's own tactics.