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I really don't understand why people go to the trouble of using Pi-hole that only blocks at the DNS level, instead of using uBlock Origin which can block at the

I really don't understand why people go to the trouble of using Pi-hole that only blocks at the DNS level, instead of using uBlock Origin which can block at the DOM level. uBlock Origin is easier and cheaper to set up, less maintenance, and more effective.

blurbleblurble 1y ago
Could be nice to have both! Plus, it's not clear that chrome will always support manifest v2. I recently learned that you can still use unlock origin in chromium by going to the extensions page and manually turning it back on, but who knows how long this will last?
kgwxd 1y ago
Not all internet traffic goes through a browser.
crtasm 1y ago
uBlock is only for your web browser - it can't help with other apps, smart devices, game consoles, etc. It's best to run both.
- rsync 1y ago
  "uBlock is only for your web browser - it can't help with other apps, smart devices, game consoles, etc." Yes, but don't we expect all of those devices (and apps) to move to DoH resolution if they haven't already ? In that case the pihole (or nextdns, etc.) are bypassed ... I suppose you could proxy all TLS traffic and block it but if the DoH is being served by the same FQDN as the traffic you want in the first place aren't you out of options ?
  - timeinput 1y ago
    I mean I expect devices and apps to move to DoH, but they haven't yet, or at least not all of them. My experience generally on my phone at home (with DNS blocking) is better enough than my experience away from home that I'm glad I took the half a day or there about to set up a DNS blocking tool a couple years ago. A couple years ago it was like night and day. Now it is still better than nothing, and in a year or two it might not be worth running. It's definitely a moving target, but "we expect ... to move to DoH resolution" means that they haven't all moved yet, and a DNS based ad/telemetry/etc blocker still works today (for some apps / smart devices). If it works for some things today why would I turn it off because it might not work for a subset of those things tomorrow? Agreed the value proposition of setting one up is probably dropping, but I still prefer it to nothing. Now that I think of it I should probably start logging how many DNS look ups "fail" because of the DNS blocking list, and monitor for changes. If it ever gets to less than one a day it's probably not worth the couple of W to power the RaspberryPI
alexose 1y ago
I agree. I don't want to be a hater, because it's a cool idea... but I find that this is just the wrong level to operate on. When I ran it, I ran into various hard-to-diagnose compatibility issues on different devices. Or, guests coming over and having their various websites be broken in ways that I'd have to troubleshoot.
BenjiWiebe 1y ago
uBlock Origin only works in the browser. And on mobile it only works in Firefox (I think). Pi-hole blocks for IoT devices, all apps across all smartphones on the network, all programs across all OS's on your network.
dvratil 1y ago
With pi-hole, you can also block telemetry from smart devices (TVs, dish washers and stuff), and if you run it on a VPN that your phone is connected to, you can also block ads and tracking in phone apps. As mentioned in the article, pi-hole complements a browser ad block, doesn't replace it.
- timbit42 1y ago
  I just don't connect those devices to any internet.
  - ThrowawayTestr 1y ago
    Some people like to watch YouTube on their TV
    - jstanley 1y ago
      I watch YouTube on my TV. Using Firefox, with uBlock Origin. We have a laptop plugged into the TV, with a bluetooth keyboard. It is a vastly superior experience to any smart TV I have ever seen.
      - dividedcomet 1y ago
        And also more than most people want to have setup in the living room. My wife would rather have ads on YouTube occasionally than an ugly computer plugged in all the time. It’s also more difficult to deal with than a remote you can work one handed.
        godelski 1y ago
        You can get a pi and tuck it behind the TV. Then get a mouse that's styled like a remote. There's also plenty of OSs designed to look like a proper smart TV OS
        jstanley 1y ago
        It's not ugly, it's hidden inside the cabinet that the TV stands on.
mikestew 1y ago
uBlock Origin works only in the browser, right? Pi-hole works on phone apps that have ads (well, most of them, anyway), ads on your TV, and anything else on the network trying to ping servers you don’t want them talking to.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Twirrim 1y ago
I use both, blocking all sorts of non-browser traffic. I find I can tell whenever the pi-hole isn't running. On the "less maintenance" front, I honestly don't pay any attention to the pi-hole in any given month. It has automatic updates running, and reboots when it needs to. It pretty much just works and I forget about it.
- nativeit 1y ago
  Yeah, blocking the bloated Adobe telemetry from their CC apps has been worth the cost of entry alone.
FredPret 1y ago
For me it's because: - I need it to work within phone apps, my TV, on Safari, and on Chrome - I just don't trust Chrome addons. When you go to install an ad blocker, there's an extremely ominous warning about how it can read everything shown on my browser. What's worse - apparently these addons can change hands down the line, and the new owners can simply push new code. I don't want this thing phoning home with screenshots of my bank and email.
- swiftcoder 1y ago
  > When you go to install an ad blocker, there's an extremely ominous warning about how it can read everything shown on my browser I'm not sure how a blocker would work if it couldn't see the content of the page...
  - FredPret 1y ago
    Exactly, that's why I do it on the DNS level
    - lmm 1y ago
      Anything that can mess with you DNS can mess with approximately everything you do on your computer, if only by MiTMing you.
whalesalad 1y ago
pihole, adguard, nextdns etc work at the network level. meaning you do not need to configure client devices. its one and done. also means that your dummy clients like TVs, IOT devices, etc... are going to be participating as well. you can't install ublock origin on a TV, or my dog's wifi collar, etc.
Havoc 1y ago
Even with ublock the pihole still ends up catching a bunch of stuff. Best to run both if you're in a position to do so
gh02t 1y ago
Used to be to catch ads in places outside of browsers like apps, smart TVs etc, or when mobile browsers didn't let you have ad block plugins, plus catching outbound connections like devices trying to phone home. Less effective now, unfortunately, but I find it still catches a lot of ads in mobile apps even if more and more apps are working hard to circumvent DNS blocking. Also have set up PiHole* to block ads for non technical family members who don't know how/can't be bothered to use a browser plugin. Another perk is it gives you some high level overview about what devices across your whole network are up to, though there are other (and often better) ways to achieve this. * I haven't actually used PiHole itself that much, mostly AdGuard and PfBlocker. Same basic idea, though. The cost for me to run PfBlocker on my router is basically zero, it's pretty much set-and-forget.

blurbleblurble 1y ago

Could be nice to have both! Plus, it's not clear that chrome will always support manifest v2. I recently learned that you can still use unlock origin in chromium by going to the extensions page and manually turning it back on, but who knows how long this will last?

kgwxd 1y ago

Not all internet traffic goes through a browser.

crtasm 1y ago

uBlock is only for your web browser - it can't help with other apps, smart devices, game consoles, etc. It's best to run both.

rsync 1y ago
"uBlock is only for your web browser - it can't help with other apps, smart devices, game consoles, etc." Yes, but don't we expect all of those devices (and apps) to move to DoH resolution if they haven't already ? In that case the pihole (or nextdns, etc.) are bypassed ... I suppose you could proxy all TLS traffic and block it but if the DoH is being served by the same FQDN as the traffic you want in the first place aren't you out of options ?
- timeinput 1y ago
  I mean I expect devices and apps to move to DoH, but they haven't yet, or at least not all of them. My experience generally on my phone at home (with DNS blocking) is better enough than my experience away from home that I'm glad I took the half a day or there about to set up a DNS blocking tool a couple years ago. A couple years ago it was like night and day. Now it is still better than nothing, and in a year or two it might not be worth running. It's definitely a moving target, but "we expect ... to move to DoH resolution" means that they haven't all moved yet, and a DNS based ad/telemetry/etc blocker still works today (for some apps / smart devices). If it works for some things today why would I turn it off because it might not work for a subset of those things tomorrow? Agreed the value proposition of setting one up is probably dropping, but I still prefer it to nothing. Now that I think of it I should probably start logging how many DNS look ups "fail" because of the DNS blocking list, and monitor for changes. If it ever gets to less than one a day it's probably not worth the couple of W to power the RaspberryPI

alexose 1y ago

I agree. I don't want to be a hater, because it's a cool idea... but I find that this is just the wrong level to operate on. When I ran it, I ran into various hard-to-diagnose compatibility issues on different devices. Or, guests coming over and having their various websites be broken in ways that I'd have to troubleshoot.

BenjiWiebe 1y ago

uBlock Origin only works in the browser. And on mobile it only works in Firefox (I think). Pi-hole blocks for IoT devices, all apps across all smartphones on the network, all programs across all OS's on your network.

dvratil 1y ago

With pi-hole, you can also block telemetry from smart devices (TVs, dish washers and stuff), and if you run it on a VPN that your phone is connected to, you can also block ads and tracking in phone apps. As mentioned in the article, pi-hole complements a browser ad block, doesn't replace it.

timbit42 1y ago
I just don't connect those devices to any internet.
- ThrowawayTestr 1y ago
  Some people like to watch YouTube on their TV
  - jstanley 1y ago
    I watch YouTube on my TV. Using Firefox, with uBlock Origin. We have a laptop plugged into the TV, with a bluetooth keyboard. It is a vastly superior experience to any smart TV I have ever seen.
    - dividedcomet 1y ago
      And also more than most people want to have setup in the living room. My wife would rather have ads on YouTube occasionally than an ugly computer plugged in all the time. It’s also more difficult to deal with than a remote you can work one handed.
      - godelski 1y ago
        You can get a pi and tuck it behind the TV. Then get a mouse that's styled like a remote. There's also plenty of OSs designed to look like a proper smart TV OS
      - jstanley 1y ago
        It's not ugly, it's hidden inside the cabinet that the TV stands on.

mikestew 1y ago

uBlock Origin works only in the browser, right? Pi-hole works on phone apps that have ads (well, most of them, anyway), ads on your TV, and anything else on the network trying to ping servers you don’t want them talking to.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

Twirrim 1y ago

I use both, blocking all sorts of non-browser traffic. I find I can tell whenever the pi-hole isn't running. On the "less maintenance" front, I honestly don't pay any attention to the pi-hole in any given month. It has automatic updates running, and reboots when it needs to. It pretty much just works and I forget about it.

nativeit 1y ago
Yeah, blocking the bloated Adobe telemetry from their CC apps has been worth the cost of entry alone.

FredPret 1y ago

For me it's because: - I need it to work within phone apps, my TV, on Safari, and on Chrome - I just don't trust Chrome addons. When you go to install an ad blocker, there's an extremely ominous warning about how it can read everything shown on my browser. What's worse - apparently these addons can change hands down the line, and the new owners can simply push new code. I don't want this thing phoning home with screenshots of my bank and email.

swiftcoder 1y ago
> When you go to install an ad blocker, there's an extremely ominous warning about how it can read everything shown on my browser I'm not sure how a blocker would work if it couldn't see the content of the page...
- FredPret 1y ago
  Exactly, that's why I do it on the DNS level
  - lmm 1y ago
    Anything that can mess with you DNS can mess with approximately everything you do on your computer, if only by MiTMing you.

whalesalad 1y ago

pihole, adguard, nextdns etc work at the network level. meaning you do not need to configure client devices. its one and done. also means that your dummy clients like TVs, IOT devices, etc... are going to be participating as well. you can't install ublock origin on a TV, or my dog's wifi collar, etc.

Havoc 1y ago

Even with ublock the pihole still ends up catching a bunch of stuff. Best to run both if you're in a position to do so

gh02t 1y ago

Used to be to catch ads in places outside of browsers like apps, smart TVs etc, or when mobile browsers didn't let you have ad block plugins, plus catching outbound connections like devices trying to phone home. Less effective now, unfortunately, but I find it still catches a lot of ads in mobile apps even if more and more apps are working hard to circumvent DNS blocking. Also have set up PiHole* to block ads for non technical family members who don't know how/can't be bothered to use a browser plugin. Another perk is it gives you some high level overview about what devices across your whole network are up to, though there are other (and often better) ways to achieve this. * I haven't actually used PiHole itself that much, mostly AdGuard and PfBlocker. Same basic idea, though. The cost for me to run PfBlocker on my router is basically zero, it's pretty much set-and-forget.