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Took me a while to understand what this is about – the website calls it a "library" but shows a GUI(?!) As far as I understand it is: - a plaintext file form

Took me a while to understand what this is about – the website calls it a "library" but shows a GUI(?!) As far as I understand it is: - a plaintext file format (.urtext), - a Python library to parse & manipulate said file format, - a SublimeText plugin, - a GUI for visualization.

nbeversluis 1y ago
The documentation should be made clearer in that case. A priority was to make setup and trial easy for non-technical users. It seems now that to technical users it is unclear what is offered. From your list it is first and mostly: 1. a plaintext file format (.urtext) - specifically, a syntax 2. a Python library to parse & manipulate said file format (syntax) These in turn require some implementation within an editor. Sublime Text was chosen for its built-in Python interpreter, its package install system, and its GUI features that together comprise a low barrier to entry. Thanks for the feedback, we will try to make this clearer.
- nathan_compton 1y ago
  Seems like a very concise pitch would be "org-mode for Sublime" and that would explain it adequately for most emacs users.
  - cbarrick 1y ago
    It would also explain it for non-emacs users. I am not and never have been an emacs user, yet I still know of org-mode.
    - zahlman 1y ago
      I've heard of it many times, but have basically no conception of what it actually is.
      - codethief 1y ago
        It's a file format / markup language (think Markdown but more feature-rich) with excellent editor support in Emacs.
        coldtea 1y ago
        That's like describing a swiss army knife as a "beer opener"
  - mmooss 1y ago
    Is it 'org-mode'?
    - nbeversluis 1y ago
      Similar, thanks for asking. Org-mode was one of many inspirations.
  - nbeversluis 1y ago
    It was inspired partly by org-mode, but org-mode can be quite difficult for non LISP-users. This project has the priority of low barrier to entry, with a lot of the Python-specific functionality coming out-of-the-box, and abstracted away underneath the syntax of "frames and calls." Even those are can be used only as desired; as another poster mentioned, the project has wiki-like functionality without going any deeper than the basic syntax.
- slooonz 1y ago
  > A priority was to make setup and trial easy for non-technical users That’s a very strange priority. Why would non-technical users would be interested in a file format and a Python library ?
- em-bee 1y ago
  i searched for examples but could not find any. i found the syntax page which describes the elements, but it doesn't tell me what i can do with them or why i would use them. each element links to a separate page with more details, but even there i feel questions are left unanswered. you explain the syntax but not the semantics. i suppose that maybe if i had tried some alternatives then i would not need the semantics because i'd be already familiar with them.
  - nbeversluis 1y ago
    This was helpful, thank you. We have replaced the home page video with inline examples of the syntax instead, and will be adding some real-world use examples in addition.
- nottorp 1y ago
  Funny maybe, but when I opened the site and the movie of that GUI opened and started to play I got very confused, tried to click on things and even maybe got a bit motion sick because it was going along independently of what i clicked :) Edit: damn spell checkers. It typed “the movie of that guy” instead of “the movie of that GUI”.
  - nbeversluis 1y ago
    This was helpful feedback, thank you. Removed the video and added examples instead, and will be adding more.
- zahlman 1y ago
  I think you really need a separate pitch and documentation for "technical" and "non-technical" users. The editor system (GUI + Sublime Text integration) is effectively a separate project from the underlying format + library.
  - nbeversluis 1y ago
    This is helpful feedback, thank you. We are working on this possibility, and explaining a clearer separation between, as another poster mentioned, the Python library (which is headless) and a specific implementation (which requires some sort of text view that may have GUI features).
nobodywillobsrv 1y ago
Is urltext a bit like what tiddlywiki was back in the day?
- nbeversluis 1y ago
  It was inspired by that and similar wiki-like tools.

nbeversluis 1y ago

The documentation should be made clearer in that case. A priority was to make setup and trial easy for non-technical users. It seems now that to technical users it is unclear what is offered. From your list it is first and mostly: 1. a plaintext file format (.urtext) - specifically, a syntax 2. a Python library to parse & manipulate said file format (syntax) These in turn require some implementation within an editor. Sublime Text was chosen for its built-in Python interpreter, its package install system, and its GUI features that together comprise a low barrier to entry. Thanks for the feedback, we will try to make this clearer.

nathan_compton 1y ago
Seems like a very concise pitch would be "org-mode for Sublime" and that would explain it adequately for most emacs users.
- cbarrick 1y ago
  It would also explain it for non-emacs users. I am not and never have been an emacs user, yet I still know of org-mode.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    I've heard of it many times, but have basically no conception of what it actually is.
    - codethief 1y ago
      It's a file format / markup language (think Markdown but more feature-rich) with excellent editor support in Emacs.
      - coldtea 1y ago
        That's like describing a swiss army knife as a "beer opener"
- mmooss 1y ago
  Is it 'org-mode'?
  - nbeversluis 1y ago
    Similar, thanks for asking. Org-mode was one of many inspirations.
- nbeversluis 1y ago
  It was inspired partly by org-mode, but org-mode can be quite difficult for non LISP-users. This project has the priority of low barrier to entry, with a lot of the Python-specific functionality coming out-of-the-box, and abstracted away underneath the syntax of "frames and calls." Even those are can be used only as desired; as another poster mentioned, the project has wiki-like functionality without going any deeper than the basic syntax.
slooonz 1y ago
> A priority was to make setup and trial easy for non-technical users That’s a very strange priority. Why would non-technical users would be interested in a file format and a Python library ?
em-bee 1y ago
i searched for examples but could not find any. i found the syntax page which describes the elements, but it doesn't tell me what i can do with them or why i would use them. each element links to a separate page with more details, but even there i feel questions are left unanswered. you explain the syntax but not the semantics. i suppose that maybe if i had tried some alternatives then i would not need the semantics because i'd be already familiar with them.
- nbeversluis 1y ago
  This was helpful, thank you. We have replaced the home page video with inline examples of the syntax instead, and will be adding some real-world use examples in addition.
nottorp 1y ago
Funny maybe, but when I opened the site and the movie of that GUI opened and started to play I got very confused, tried to click on things and even maybe got a bit motion sick because it was going along independently of what i clicked :) Edit: damn spell checkers. It typed “the movie of that guy” instead of “the movie of that GUI”.
- nbeversluis 1y ago
  This was helpful feedback, thank you. Removed the video and added examples instead, and will be adding more.
zahlman 1y ago
I think you really need a separate pitch and documentation for "technical" and "non-technical" users. The editor system (GUI + Sublime Text integration) is effectively a separate project from the underlying format + library.
- nbeversluis 1y ago
  This is helpful feedback, thank you. We are working on this possibility, and explaining a clearer separation between, as another poster mentioned, the Python library (which is headless) and a specific implementation (which requires some sort of text view that may have GUI features).

nobodywillobsrv 1y ago

Is urltext a bit like what tiddlywiki was back in the day?

nbeversluis 1y ago
It was inspired by that and similar wiki-like tools.