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I don't see what's so beneficial about a volley. Concentrating the arrows allows the opposing force to ready their shields which renders the volley less effect

I don't see what's so beneficial about a volley. Concentrating the arrows allows the opposing force to ready their shields which renders the volley less effective, and advance in between volleys. It's better to rain arrows continuously which prevents the opposing force from defending in any capacity without stopping their advance entirely. Arrows are not more effective (e.g. armor penetration) in a volley, and the psychological effect is also less for volleys I would argue: you know a volley is coming, duck and cover, and afterwards it's clear, vs a continuous rain where you never know when an arrow is headed toward you specifically.

onlypassingthru 1y ago
>Arrows are not more effective In this scenario, how big is this impenetrable (and undoubtedly heavy) shield you are lifting over your head with one arm while charging the enemy?
- haiku2077 1y ago
  TFA has diagrams showing the size and coverage of some typical shields, and discusses how even light armor was effective against arrows. One example given is a Scutum (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scutum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scutum) which weighs around 22 lbs- "light enough to be carried with one hand"
  - onlypassingthru 1y ago
    Looks good. Now run across a field towards archers with that thing over your head and try not to take an arrow in the gut. Or, you can protect your front while the arrows get dropped on your head. Decisions, decisions...
    - haiku2077 1y ago
      Generally arrows are gonna be coming from in front of me in the field, not arcing over like artillery. https://youtube.com/shorts/0AWfhAcFu_k?si=XokulP_9f3aFl2mu https://youtube.com/shorts/0AWfhAcFu_k?si=XokulP_9f3aFl2mu However, if the enemy has an elevated position, that is literally what the romans did. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation
      - onlypassingthru 1y ago
        Anybody who has ever been in a serious snowball fight knows the power of the two snowball technique, a high lob to distract followed by a quick fastball (to the face/torso). An army of professional archers would undoubtedly be experts in the same technique.
        Qwertious 1y ago
        What would a high lob do, when your target is wearing a helmet and shoulder armour? More importantly, people's silhouette from side-on is far bigger than their silhouette from the top down.
        lukan 1y ago
        Maybe go to a LARP or reanectment event and participate (arrows with rubber endings) to compare if there are differences with your close range snowball fight. "army of professional archers would undoubtedly be experts in the same technique." Because I do doubt that a lot. There is no one shooting in the air on a battlefield to distract.
        onlypassingthru 1y ago
        Your LARPers are nothing like historical professionals. It's like asking a bunch of chubby Sunday Leaguers to imitate a Champions League team. Not. Even. Close.
        lukan 1y ago
        Hm. Are you aware that reenactment and research often go hand in hand? And if those people won't know, who actually try it out - then sureley you would know better. But how?
        haiku2077 1y ago
        You might have mixed up LARP and HEMA.
    - jltsiren 1y ago
      Dangerous arrows tend to come from the same general direction. If the archer is close enough to shoot straight, arrows coming from above have so little energy that they are mostly harmless. If the archer had shot them with enough energy to penetrate armor, they would land behind you.
- tekla 1y ago
  There is literally an entire section dealing with this exact question that answers it.
o11c 1y ago
The one thing that theoretically would be advantageous about a volley is that it's impossible for a target to block/dodge all of them. FTA (though focusing on how useful shields and armor are): > arrows at range move slowly enough to be actively blocked and dodged It's just that this one theoretical advantage isn't enough to make volleys useful in practice, since volleys decrease the total number of arrows you can shoot.

onlypassingthru 1y ago

>Arrows are not more effective In this scenario, how big is this impenetrable (and undoubtedly heavy) shield you are lifting over your head with one arm while charging the enemy?

haiku2077 1y ago
TFA has diagrams showing the size and coverage of some typical shields, and discusses how even light armor was effective against arrows. One example given is a Scutum (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scutum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scutum) which weighs around 22 lbs- "light enough to be carried with one hand"
- onlypassingthru 1y ago
  Looks good. Now run across a field towards archers with that thing over your head and try not to take an arrow in the gut. Or, you can protect your front while the arrows get dropped on your head. Decisions, decisions...
  - haiku2077 1y ago
    Generally arrows are gonna be coming from in front of me in the field, not arcing over like artillery. https://youtube.com/shorts/0AWfhAcFu_k?si=XokulP_9f3aFl2mu https://youtube.com/shorts/0AWfhAcFu_k?si=XokulP_9f3aFl2mu However, if the enemy has an elevated position, that is literally what the romans did. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_formation
    - onlypassingthru 1y ago
      Anybody who has ever been in a serious snowball fight knows the power of the two snowball technique, a high lob to distract followed by a quick fastball (to the face/torso). An army of professional archers would undoubtedly be experts in the same technique.
      - Qwertious 1y ago
        What would a high lob do, when your target is wearing a helmet and shoulder armour? More importantly, people's silhouette from side-on is far bigger than their silhouette from the top down.
      - lukan 1y ago
        Maybe go to a LARP or reanectment event and participate (arrows with rubber endings) to compare if there are differences with your close range snowball fight. "army of professional archers would undoubtedly be experts in the same technique." Because I do doubt that a lot. There is no one shooting in the air on a battlefield to distract.
        onlypassingthru 1y ago
        Your LARPers are nothing like historical professionals. It's like asking a bunch of chubby Sunday Leaguers to imitate a Champions League team. Not. Even. Close.
        lukan 1y ago
        Hm. Are you aware that reenactment and research often go hand in hand? And if those people won't know, who actually try it out - then sureley you would know better. But how?
        haiku2077 1y ago
        You might have mixed up LARP and HEMA.
  - jltsiren 1y ago
    Dangerous arrows tend to come from the same general direction. If the archer is close enough to shoot straight, arrows coming from above have so little energy that they are mostly harmless. If the archer had shot them with enough energy to penetrate armor, they would land behind you.
tekla 1y ago
There is literally an entire section dealing with this exact question that answers it.

o11c 1y ago

The one thing that theoretically would be advantageous about a volley is that it's impossible for a target to block/dodge all of them. FTA (though focusing on how useful shields and armor are): > arrows at range move slowly enough to be actively blocked and dodged It's just that this one theoretical advantage isn't enough to make volleys useful in practice, since volleys decrease the total number of arrows you can shoot.