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The generalized term for the use of random selection in governance is called “Sortition” and has roots in Ancient Athens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortiti

The generalized term for the use of random selection in governance is called “Sortition” and has roots in Ancient Athens: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition

rc_mob 1y ago
[flagged]
- wincy 1y ago
  [flagged]
wahern 1y ago
A few Orthodox churches select their patriarch by random selection, except it's from a handful of candidates selected by other means. The Oriental Coptic Orthodox Church ultimately chooses their patriarch using a blindfolded child who pulls a name from a chalice.
parpfish 1y ago
I’m curious if a sortition would work for passing legislation. Instead of wrangling legislators and trading favors to get exactly 50%+1 votes, have the pass/fail determined by a single randomly selected voter. It would encourage much more cooperation and broad consensus building because a bill that gets 50%+1 votes isn’t 50/50 pass fail. (Of course you’d need some sort of rate limiting so you couldn’t just keep spamming votes until it passes)
- dataflow 1y ago
  > It would encourage much more cooperation and broad consensus And what would you do when someone who wasn't part of that consensus passes crazy legislation?
- FredPret 1y ago
  Or, randomly select the senate members and keep the 50% + 1 rule
- sandworm101 1y ago
  Because about 10% of voters are total crazy people. Let them make the occasional random decision and we will be at war with the moon people within a month.
  - fakedang 1y ago
    Exactly. Venice's govt was not a democracy - the Serene Republic was designed to basically filter in only the most influential, yet had a system of checks and balances so that power wouldn't devolve to just one family (like what happened in Florence and Milan). Sortition was part of that system.
- Ekaros 1y ago
  Immediate problem with that sort of system is that you could attempt something time after time after time. And eventually hit the decision...
travisgriggs 1y ago
I love the idea of sortition. Wish more people knew and used the word in their political vocabularies. I've always wanted to see someone experiment with a hybrid. A coin has value because it has two sides (e.g. just one coin face spend very well). So I've always wanted to see sortition and meritocratic elections paired. Either you use a lottery system to select who can run for office in a given cycle (say 1000 people get the nod to run for State Senator), and then those that wish of that set can run for office in the traditional way. OR You use a voting system to select a set of candidates (say 5-10 of them) and then "cast lots" to select the winner. Either way allows the electorate to steer the process, but also accepts the hand of fate. Marries chaos and order, yin and yang, stability and turbulence. I've always wished that there was more record of this having been tried out. And respect for the value of a little chaos in the system. Large system designers often use turbelence/randomness in ways that reinforce otherwise ordered systems.
jimmySixDOF 1y ago
"One of William F. Buckley‘s most famous quotes goes something like this: “I am obliged to confess I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University.” Source: https://www.johnlocke.org/what-was-it-that-buckley-said-about-the-boston-phone-book/ https://www.johnlocke.org/what-was-it-that-buckley-said-abou...

rc_mob 1y ago

[flagged]

wincy 1y ago
[flagged]

wahern 1y ago

A few Orthodox churches select their patriarch by random selection, except it's from a handful of candidates selected by other means. The Oriental Coptic Orthodox Church ultimately chooses their patriarch using a blindfolded child who pulls a name from a chalice.

parpfish 1y ago

I’m curious if a sortition would work for passing legislation. Instead of wrangling legislators and trading favors to get exactly 50%+1 votes, have the pass/fail determined by a single randomly selected voter. It would encourage much more cooperation and broad consensus building because a bill that gets 50%+1 votes isn’t 50/50 pass fail. (Of course you’d need some sort of rate limiting so you couldn’t just keep spamming votes until it passes)

dataflow 1y ago
> It would encourage much more cooperation and broad consensus And what would you do when someone who wasn't part of that consensus passes crazy legislation?
FredPret 1y ago
Or, randomly select the senate members and keep the 50% + 1 rule
sandworm101 1y ago
Because about 10% of voters are total crazy people. Let them make the occasional random decision and we will be at war with the moon people within a month.
- fakedang 1y ago
  Exactly. Venice's govt was not a democracy - the Serene Republic was designed to basically filter in only the most influential, yet had a system of checks and balances so that power wouldn't devolve to just one family (like what happened in Florence and Milan). Sortition was part of that system.
Ekaros 1y ago
Immediate problem with that sort of system is that you could attempt something time after time after time. And eventually hit the decision...

travisgriggs 1y ago

I love the idea of sortition. Wish more people knew and used the word in their political vocabularies. I've always wanted to see someone experiment with a hybrid. A coin has value because it has two sides (e.g. just one coin face spend very well). So I've always wanted to see sortition and meritocratic elections paired. Either you use a lottery system to select who can run for office in a given cycle (say 1000 people get the nod to run for State Senator), and then those that wish of that set can run for office in the traditional way. OR You use a voting system to select a set of candidates (say 5-10 of them) and then "cast lots" to select the winner. Either way allows the electorate to steer the process, but also accepts the hand of fate. Marries chaos and order, yin and yang, stability and turbulence. I've always wished that there was more record of this having been tried out. And respect for the value of a little chaos in the system. Large system designers often use turbelence/randomness in ways that reinforce otherwise ordered systems.

jimmySixDOF 1y ago

"One of William F. Buckley‘s most famous quotes goes something like this: “I am obliged to confess I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University.” Source: https://www.johnlocke.org/what-was-it-that-buckley-said-about-the-boston-phone-book/ https://www.johnlocke.org/what-was-it-that-buckley-said-abou...